[Bluesideup]

I know this is a GM site and GM actively campaigned against the direct sales model but for anyone who believes in competition not hindered by government, lobbyists or special interest groups. This is a win.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-win-direct-sales-battle/

 

[Qinsp]

The #1 state in auto sales has no restrictions on Tesla.

As a side effect: You cannot have anyone but the dealership or Tesla approved sub-tier vendors work on your Tesla.
There are problems with spares.
Some of the consumer protections are gone. Things like Refundable Deposits do not apply to Tesla. Or misleading sales pitches, like selling features that don't exist.
Even getting a Service Manual or direct purchase of special tools and spares is problematic.
Virtually zero aftermarket service parts availability.

I can buy any GM service tool including advanced diagnostic software/hardware as well as very detailed service manuals, access to TSBs, etc. I can shop for the best price among vendors for service parts. And everything I paid for worked on delivery.

There are dozens of other consumer protection clauses that have been legislated upon dealers that Tesla does not have to support.

The answer lies somewhere in the middle. You need consumer protection as well as the ability to order online when it comes to major purchases such as cars.

Ford, Mazda, and others have had to buy back cars that did not fully meet advertised specifications. Tesla has not had to comply with this yet. If Ford says 762HP and you get 5xx HP, you have recourse to get a refund. Not true with Tesla. Obviously those who paid for Full Self Driving over a year ago did not get that feature. They received hardware to enable it whether they paid for it or not. It has not been proven that first FSD cars sold will actually have that ability even with the hardware provided.

 

[jcanoe]

I can definitely see Amazon selling vehicles direct to consumers, including EVs. Free 2-day shipping with Amazon Prime.

 

[wizard_of-ahs]

I can definitely see Amazon selling vehicles direct to consumers, including EVs. Free 2-day shipping with Amazon Prime.

 

[Steverino]

The dealer cabal cries about unfair competition because someone is not forced to buy from one of their members. Someone who never had a dealer should not be forced to sell only through dealers.

In this case, someone is claiming their business would be hurt if consumers were allowed to buy from someone else, lol. That's not unfair competition, that's just competition.

 

[Powered7]

Really awesome news, thanks for posting Bluesideup!

 

[Upper5Percent]

I know this is a GM site and GM actively campaigned against the direct sales model but for anyone who believes in competition not hindered by government, lobbyists or special interest groups. This is a win.

https://insideevs.com/tesla-win-direct-sales-battle/

I love the argument that MADA’s president, Doug Smith advanced
“… you’re supposed to sell vehicles through the system that was created in the early ’80s. And until that system is modified or changed, that’s gonna be our stance."

If the above statement was their argument...I can't believe Tesla didn't win in the lower court

Go Amazon...soon to be selling EVs directly

 

[DonC]

Car dealers certainly get favored treatment. Crazy. My favorite was Hensarling's argument that they "were entitled" to a return on their investment. You know, like holders of I Bonds! LOL

I love the argument that MADA’s president, Doug Smith advanced
“… you’re supposed to sell vehicles through the system that was created in the early ’80s. And until that system is modified or changed, that’s gonna be our stance."

+100. Dealers need to start figuring out how to be part of the solution rather than the problem. And manufacturers don't help with all the bonus programs that lead to nutty pricing.

 

[Mister Dave]

The dealer cabal cries about unfair competition because someone is not forced to buy from one of their members. Someone who never had a dealer should not be forced to sell only through dealers.

Or allowed to sell through dealers at all.

In this case, someone is claiming their business would be hurt if consumers were allowed to buy from someone else, lol. That's not unfair competition, that's just competition.

Qinsp has good points. In addition Tesla is unlikely to come near the scale of other auto makers if they take on the financial burden of direct selling/servicing.

And the choices will be few on where to get service. If the model 3 projections pan out I have to agree with an earlier poster from months back - good luck getting it serviced, especially in a timely manner.

 

[Steverino]

Qinsp has good points. In addition Tesla is unlikely to come near the scale of other auto makers if they take on the financial burden of direct selling/servicing.

And the choices will be few on where to get service. If the model 3 projections pan out I have to agree with an earlier poster from months back - good luck getting it serviced, especially in a timely manner.

I don't disagree. That's also part of competition. If people can't get their Tesla serviced, etc., they will buy their next car from someone else.

 

[Mister Dave]

I don't disagree. That's also part of competition. If people can't get their Tesla serviced, etc., they will buy their next car from someone else.

A big problem for people who rely on their cars to get to work every day. Think how many loaner cars Tesla would need at each location for 'just in case'. They could always make a deal with Hertz or Enterprise, but imagine the PR issues if Tesla puts people in ICE loaners. GM dealers get away with that every day.

 

[dannycamps]

I've always been curious if Teslas have a standard OBD-II connector / trouble codes or if they have something completely proprietary.

 

[Qinsp]

I've always been curious if Teslas have a standard OBD-II connector / trouble codes or if they have something completely proprietary.

IIRC:
By law they have an OBDII port. It doesn't report diagnostics because it has no emissions equipment. For diagnostics you need to be a Tesla Service Center.

 

[Qinsp]

I don't disagree. That's also part of competition. If people can't get their Tesla serviced, etc., they will buy their next car from someone else.

But what if Tesla had to obey the same laws that other auto seller must?

You must admit, buying a $36k-$145k car only to find you don't have access to the same protection laws is a very hard lesson to learn, and is not mentioned in the Tesla Marketing. All you hear is "Tesla's distribution model is vastly superior in all aspects from dealerships." Normally, disclaimers are required in marketing when there are limitations to advertised characteristics.

 

[Chris TX]

IIRC:
By law they have an OBDII port. It doesn't report diagnostics because it has no emissions equipment. For diagnostics you need to be a Tesla Service Center.

That has changed, and the Model 3 does not have an OBD2 port. For diagnostics, there is a connector you can get an adapter for, to get an OBD2 reader that supports CAN bus. And no, these aren't proprietary connectors. For the pre-Sept 2015 cars, they have a connector made by Amphenol which can be bought readily from Mouser. The newer cars and MX/M3 use Sumitomo connectors. Not as easy to find, without buying 100 of them.

 

[Chris TX]

But what if Tesla had to obey the same laws that other auto seller must?

You must admit, buying a $36k-$145k car only to find you don't have access to the same protection laws is a very hard lesson to learn, and is not mentioned in the Tesla Marketing. All you hear is "Tesla's distribution model is vastly superior in all aspects from dealerships." Normally, disclaimers are required in marketing when there are limitations to advertised characteristics.

"Consumer protection" is a term used by OEMs and their franchised dealerships. If you look at the actual laws, they only protect the franchised dealerships, plain and simple. We go through this same crap over and over, here in Texas and not a single consumer steps up to say, "Yes, I really love that franchised dealership 'experience' when I buy an automobile!" The only ones fighting against Tesla are the dealerships and the OEMs they serve. It's the consumers that step up and give testimony in favor of Tesla's direct sales model, every time.

 

[Mister Dave]

"Consumer protection" is a term used by OEMs and their franchised dealerships. If you look at the actual laws, they only protect the franchised dealerships, plain and simple. We go through this same crap over and over, here in Texas and not a single consumer steps up to say, "Yes, I really love that franchised dealership 'experience' when I buy an automobile!" The only ones fighting against Tesla are the dealerships and the OEMs they serve. It's the consumers that step up and give testimony in favor of Tesla's direct sales model, every time.

Lets be clear here. The protection laws are primarily to protect dealerships from direct competition from the OEMs. That's why Tesla can't have independent dealerships if they direct sell. To say dealerships "serve" OEMs is a stretch. Dealerships serve themselves. Sometimes they even take serving their customers seriously. Mine does.

It's unfortunate that in the entire state of Texas there isn't a dealer like that, or maybe you're just exaggerating..

 

[Qinsp]

"Consumer protection" is a term used by OEMs and their franchised dealerships. If you look at the actual laws, they only protect the franchised dealerships, plain and simple. We go through this same crap over and over, here in Texas and not a single consumer steps up to say, "Yes, I really love that franchised dealership 'experience' when I buy an automobile!" The only ones fighting against Tesla are the dealerships and the OEMs they serve. It's the consumers that step up and give testimony in favor of Tesla's direct sales model, every time.

A dealership in my state cannot take non-refundable deposit, must sell me spares, tools, manuals, must support consumer initiated lemon laws, etc.

Texas is different? I have a lot of friends in Texas (love Texas), and nobody has ever mentioned it.

Here's how my last 2 auto purchases went. Nearly all our purchases go this way:

Negotiated a price over the phone and emails. Down to the penny.

Arrived, spent under 1 hr filling out crap while the car is being detailed, get a 20 minute walk through of features, they put HOV stickers on the car if applicable, initiate OnStar, and I'm gone in under 2 hours. Record? 20 minutes from parking to leaving.

But then again, I've bought dozens of cars, trucks, and motorcycles.

Here's how my servicing works:

"Dennis?"
"Hi Pat. What can I do for you?"
"I need our XXXXX to be serviced for XXXX."
"I'll make sure we have the parts. When will you show?"
"How's 7?"
"Sure, they will have the parts here at noon today, so tomorrow you'll be ready for pickup by 4 easy."

We stop, hand over keys, scribble quickly, and gone. Never even turn off ignition. Under 5 minutes.
Pickup later that day? Go directly to cashier, they call up the car. It's been washed, and is out there for me usually by the time I run the financial end.

Exactly what about that experience sucks to you? I'm honestly curious. You're saying there is something better out there? If I want a car today, (it's 6:30am), I will have one by noon. If I want my car serviced, (it's Saturday), I'll have it ready by Monday afternoon.
My wife just ran down (it's a 20 minute drive) to grab some parts yesterday. Not only fast and easy, they were discounted since we are good customers.

Your "Tesla Witnesses" seem to be tailoring their testimony at hearings. I've had a reservation for a Model 3 for a long time. When it's time to order, I must place a non-refundable deposit, or pay in full. It could take weeks or months to actually receive the car I've paid for. If the car is damaged, then the fun begins. I can't just step way from the table. I must complete the transfer on my end or lose my deposit.

 

[Mister Dave]

Here's how my servicing works:

"Dennis?"
"Hi Pat. What can I do for you?"
"I need our XXXXX to be serviced for XXXX."
"I'll make sure we have the parts. When will you show?"
"How's 7?"
"Sure, they will have the parts here at noon today, so tomorrow you'll be ready for pickup by 4 easy."

We stop, hand over keys, scribble quickly, and gone. Never even turn off ignition. Under 5 minutes.
Pickup later that day? Go directly to cashier, they call up the car. It's been washed, and is out there for me usually by the time I run the financial end.

Sounds a lot like my visits, except that I hang out there. I'm usually out in an hour or less. When the EVAP was replaced I was there watching and chatting - still out in about an hour.

Sometimes I troll the showroom. That's how I got hooked up with a Volt. I decided to take a test drive while they changed the oil on my Silverado (and washed it).

 

[Qinsp]

Sounds a lot like my visits, except that I hang out there. I'm usually out in an hour or less. When the EVAP was replaced I was there watching and chatting - still out in about an hour.

Sometimes I troll the showroom. That's how I got hooked up with a Volt. I decided to take a test drive while they changed the oil on my Silverado (and washed it).

That's why I'm puzzled that some car owners want to surrender that because it's a criminal conspiracy to make our life easier. EV Life is supposed to be all about sacrifices. Slow refueling with no air or water or squeegies, slow service, slow deliveries, no consumer available spares or manuals.

I'd rather make EV ownership simpler.