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Discussion Starter #1
With the 310 mile model 3 starting out at an MSRP of $44k. Making it the cheapest 300+ mile car out there or about the same MSRP as a loaded bolt.

The model 3 also gets a better MPGe of 126 vs the bolts 119 MPGe. The really surprising part was the Model 3 got better city MPGe of 131 vs the bolts 128 MPGe. It was no shock that the Model 3 being much more aerodynamic received a better highway of 120 MPGe vs the bolts 110 MPGe.

https://electrek.co/2017/11/29/tesla-model-3-official-epa-rating/
 

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Well, that does it. The Model 3 will kill the vastly outclassed Bolt.......
Kiidding. These 2 cars don't directly complete in most ways and how many potential buyers know what MPGe is anyway? What is important is purchase price , rated max range and time to recharge. And EPA ratings do not always equate to real world figures.
 

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Personally if I were in the market for a M3 I'd buy the standard range M3 use the $9K they want for the LR version and opt for the Premimum Package and SuperCharging option. With their SC and Destination charging network I could live with a 2xx mile M3.

But I guess to get the Ludicrous mode you need the BIG battery.
 

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Meh. The Malibu and Equinox are sort of the same thing size and powertrain-wise and the Malibu gets 10% or so better fuel economy. Does the consumer care enough about that to pick a sedan over a CUV? The sales figures say no.
 

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The problem with the Model 3, is they will start at ~$54,000 in California after all rebates and incentives if you want black and no adaptive cruise control. Live in the wrong city, and hate black cars? >$56,000. That's full sized SUV money, or Corvette money, not Prius money.

That doesn't affect me, but it probably will affect a lot of other buyers.

Retirees drive their Teslas cross country, but the working class does not. The workers spend about $35k for a new car, and seldom drive more than 200 miles in a day.

Will Tesla actually be able to sell a Model 3 for $36k? Nobody knows. There was already supposed to be a Model S for $49k but it was discontinued. Tesla is currently in trouble in Germany for refusing to sell Teslas at the required price for EV rebates. You can order it, but they won't ship it. They lose money if they do.

But the long game is not electrification. It's autonomy. General Motors appears to be winning the electronic warfare battle. GM has always had a good ECM suite; they were the first with an effective commercial electric truck (1912-1917), 80mi electric car, and invented the electric starter motor (Cadillac). With Google having no car, and Tesla having no AV yet, and the Germans bragging about 37 mph driving on freeways, it appears that GM appeared out of nowhere with a long range affordable EV that is AV capable.

Trivia: There were more GMC electric heavy duty trucks built than Tesla Model 3's.
 

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With the 310 mile model 3 starting out at an MSRP of $44k. Making it the cheapest 300+ mile car out there....
Interesting specs. I assume it's all because of aero drag.
I assume the M3 is heavier and rolls on fatter rubber. Where else can this efficiency difference come from?

But $44k? Who believes any such nonsense? Just because Æon Flux said it doesn't make it true.

....But the long game is not electrification. It's autonomy. General Motors appears to be winning the electronic warfare battle. ... it appears that GM appeared out of nowhere with a long range affordable EV that is AV capable.
Well, it's got to be an EV to be clean and sustainable,, someday the grid could be that way.
And Yes, GM has serious AV testing going on with Bolts as the platform.

But as of now I can't buy a Bolt with ACC, let alone GM's "Super Cruise", which they offer on some Caddy's.
I am not buying a Bolt without some of this tech.
And GM, please don't make it a $5k option.
 

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Interesting specs. I assume it's all because of aero drag.
I assume the M3 is heavier and rolls on fatter rubber. Where else can this efficiency difference come from?

But $44k? Who believes any such nonsense? Just because Æon Flux said it doesn't make it true.


Well, it's got to be an EV to be clean and sustainable,, someday the grid could be that way.
And Yes, GM has serious AV testing going on with Bolts as the platform.

But as of now I can't buy a Bolt with ACC, let alone GM's "Super Cruise", which they offer on some Caddy's.
I am not buying a Bolt without some of this tech.
And GM, please don't make it a $5k option.
Super Cruise is free on the $90k CT6! It's hard to tell what it costs otherwise. It's packaged with a lot of other features.

You can't buy a Tesla Model 3 with any ACC/Autonomy functions.
You can't buy a Bolt with any ACC/Autonomy functions either.

I'll bet you'll get your ACC or SuperCruise in your GM EV before you can buy it in a Tesla Model 3. In fact, my GM (ER)EV has Adaptive Cruise already, and it was 1/2 the price of what a Model 3 will cost me with ACC. It's a year old now.

By buy it, I mean exchange money for an actual car you can drive.
 

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With the 310 mile model 3 starting out at an MSRP of $44k. Making it the cheapest 300+ mile car out there or about the same MSRP as a loaded bolt.
"The cheapest out there" implies I can go and buy one and drive home in one now. At this point, the car you describe is more of a concept car, not a production car.
 

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"The cheapest out there" implies I can go and buy one and drive home in one now. At this point, the car you describe is more of a concept car, not a production car.
Well, I would agree with you, but on Nov 25th weekend went to Yosemite national park, and parked at Vernal Falls parking lot. Getting ready for a hike with my family and look across loaded parking lot and see a white Model 3 there parked on a dirt parking lot. That came as of surprise. I drooled at the car for 10min or so before I went for a hike, and then 5 more after I returned. Pictures do not do justice to the car - it is one good looking vehicle. Loved the inside - very spacious and the interior is very simple and elegant. What a car.
Even though I do plan buying a Bolt next late summer before EV credits are gone, because it will be 2X cheaper than Model 3, at some point there will be a Model 3 in my stable. Hopefully Tesla at LA auto show let people sit in the red M3 they bought there - going next weekend.
And I would love to see BMW 3 series, Audi A4 series, and Mercedes C-class be destroyed in sales by Tesla M3 :).
 

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"The World Moves....So Does Gallagher". Now, that's catchy 8^)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The problem with the Model 3, is they will start at ~$54,000 in California after all rebates and incentives if you want black and no adaptive cruise control. Live in the wrong city, and hate black cars? >$56,000. That's full sized SUV money, or Corvette money, not Prius money.

That doesn't affect me, but it probably will affect a lot of other buyers.

Retirees drive their Teslas cross country, but the working class does not. The workers spend about $35k for a new car, and seldom drive more than 200 miles in a day.

Will Tesla actually be able to sell a Model 3 for $36k? Nobody knows. There was already supposed to be a Model S for $49k but it was discontinued. Tesla is currently in trouble in Germany for refusing to sell Teslas at the required price for EV rebates. You can order it, but they won't ship it. They lose money if they do.

But the long game is not electrification. It's autonomy. General Motors appears to be winning the electronic warfare battle. GM has always had a good ECM suite; they were the first with an effective commercial electric truck (1912-1917), 80mi electric car, and invented the electric starter motor (Cadillac). With Google having no car, and Tesla having no AV yet, and the Germans bragging about 37 mph driving on freeways, it appears that GM appeared out of nowhere with a long range affordable EV that is AV capable.

Trivia: There were more GMC electric heavy duty trucks built than Tesla Model 3's.
My math may be a little fuzzy but how do you come up with $54,000 after all rebates and incentives? Right now they are selling the long range version with the premium package and that only comes in at $49k before all rebates and incentives.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Interesting specs. I assume it's all because of aero drag.
I assume the M3 is heavier and rolls on fatter rubber. Where else can this efficiency difference come from?

But $44k? Who believes any such nonsense? Just because Æon Flux said it doesn't make it true.


Well, it's got to be an EV to be clean and sustainable,, someday the grid could be that way.
And Yes, GM has serious AV testing going on with Bolts as the platform.

But as of now I can't buy a Bolt with ACC, let alone GM's "Super Cruise", which they offer on some Caddy's.
I am not buying a Bolt without some of this tech.
And GM, please don't make it a $5k option.
I don't quite know what to say that you don't believe the $44k when it clearly shows up when you go and configure the car that it is $35k for the base with a $9k upgrade. Last I checked that was $44k. Right now if you want one you have to add in the premium upgrade for $5k but the prices are clearly labeled. Here is one of the first non tesla employees allowed to configure his car and the configuration tool clearly shows the prices.

https://insideevs.com/non-employees-invite-order-tesla-model-3/
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Super Cruise is free on the $90k CT6! It's hard to tell what it costs otherwise. It's packaged with a lot of other features.

You can't buy a Tesla Model 3 with any ACC/Autonomy functions.
You can't buy a Bolt with any ACC/Autonomy functions either.

I'll bet you'll get your ACC or SuperCruise in your GM EV before you can buy it in a Tesla Model 3. In fact, my GM (ER)EV has Adaptive Cruise already, and it was 1/2 the price of what a Model 3 will cost me with ACC. It's a year old now.

By buy it, I mean exchange money for an actual car you can drive.
I think you are a little behind on the time they have shown the model 3 in private hands using the autopilot or are you saying that because of the huge demand for the Model 3 that it may take a while for them to get it. Last I checked the model 3 is a lot less the 90k CT6 as even a fully optioned Model 3 is still over $20k less.

I also heard that the bolt isn't coming out with ACC next year so I will with no guarantee for the year after that. I do know that the model 3 has it available right now you just have to get in line behind the huge demand for it already if you want it.

Here is the model 3 autopilot getting tested in the real world by someone not affiliated with Tesla.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/watch-the-tesla-model-3s-autopilot-in-action/
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Funny !!
Fanbois don't like to talk about that subject...:(
You still can't walk into a dealer and get the bolt in Canada as there is a waiting list with only a few trickling in. You can't get the bolt in Europe as it was losing $12 via the opel brand per car. Up until a couple months ago you couldn't buy the bolt nationwide.

The fact that your only argument is that you can't go to a dealer and buy it right now is starting to wane as more and more start hitting the streets. Give it a little time just like most had to do with the bolt when it first came out being available in only 3 states for a couple months.
 

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My math may be a little fuzzy but how do you come up with $54,000 after all rebates and incentives? Right now they are selling the long range version with the premium package and that only comes in at $49k before all rebates and incentives.
$49,000 + $1,000 destination + 10.25% sales tax (Santa Monica and others). So $50,000 + (49000 x 10.25) = $55,022.50 plus DMV fees. No $7500 Fed, Cali discontinued rebates, and Edison offers $450 max.

So $54k in black with small tires and no ACC is optimistic.
 

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You still can't walk into a dealer and get the bolt in Canada as there is a waiting list with only a few trickling in. You can't get the bolt in Europe as it was losing $12 via the opel brand per car. Up until a couple months ago you couldn't buy the bolt nationwide.

The fact that your only argument is that you can't go to a dealer and buy it right now is starting to wane as more and more start hitting the streets. Give it a little time just like most had to do with the bolt when it first came out being available in only 3 states for a couple months.
There have been over twice the Chevrolet Bolts already sold in Canada than Tesla Model 3 ever made so far globally.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
$49,000 + $1,000 destination + 10.25% sales tax (Santa Monica and others). So $50,000 + (49000 x 10.25) = $55,022.50 plus DMV fees. No $7500 Fed, Cali discontinued rebates, and Edison offers $450 max.

So $54k in black with small tires and no ACC is optimistic.
So, made up numbers gotcha.

Last I checked the $7,500 was still in effect the California $2,500 was still in effect. Nice adding the sales tax of one of the highest places in the Country too.

I don't know how you people can afford to live in Cali. I left 20 years ago when the prices and taxes were ridiculous and they have only gotten worse.

Based on your numbers that would make the average selling price of the bolt in California $48,300 plus DMV fees and no option for for ACC and the model 3 that you based the comparison on also gets 310 miles of range with an 80 kWh battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
There have been over twice the Chevrolet Bolts already sold in Canada than Tesla Model 3 ever made so far globally.
Ok once again your only argument is you can't buy it right now. Why not based on the merits of the differences?

I was just pointing out there are a lot of places you can't buy a bolt right now.
 

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So, made up numbers gotcha.

Last I checked the $7,500 was still in effect the California $2,500 was still in effect. Nice adding the sales tax of one of the highest places in the Country too.

I don't know how you people can afford to live in Cali. I left 20 years ago when the prices and taxes were ridiculous and they have only gotten worse.

Based on your numbers that would make the average selling price of the bolt in California $48,300 plus DMV fees and no option for for ACC and the model 3 that you based the comparison on also gets 310 miles of range with an 80 kWh battery.
The $7500 is not in effect on the M3 because the M3 is not available. The $2500 for California is only for low income earners. Monies for middle class buyers is exhausted.

The lowest tax in CA is 7.5%. Most the state is higher.
 
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