GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,974 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Every vehicle built “will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver,” the company said in a statement Wednesday. The vehicles have eight cameras and 12 sensors giving full 360-degree visibility, the company said.


“To make sense of all of this data, a new onboard computer with more than 40 times the computing power of the previous generation runs the new Tesla-developed neural net for vision, sonar and radar processing software,” Tesla’s statement said. “Together, this system provides a view of the world that a driver alone cannot access, seeing in every direction simultaneously and on wavelengths that go far beyond the human senses.”


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-20/tesla-says-all-vehicles-in-production-capable-of-self-driving
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
All Tesla models will have level 5 autonomy hardware

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware

"We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. Eight surround cameras provide 360 degree visibility around the car at up to 250 meters of range. Twelve updated ultrasonic sensors complement this vision, allowing for detection of both hard and soft objects at nearly twice the distance of the prior system. A forward-facing radar with enhanced processing provides additional data about the world on a redundant wavelength, capable of seeing through heavy rain, fog, dust and even the car ahead."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,634 Posts
AP now costs $5-6k and Full Autonomy (when available) will cost $3-4k, so it is an $8 to $10k option (10k after build).

It also means the model 3 is a $43k car + other options if you want the standout feature, more for supercharging.

It is nice they will offer these, but typical of Tesla they are promising a lot for something not yet available. Competitors are promising full Autonomy for about the same price. I will wait for multiple systems to be available and buy based on that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,081 Posts
And none of it works. It takes away current autopilot for something promised months away in Tesla time. And sometime in 2018+ (again Tesla time) when software is ready, the equipment will have two plus years of vibration and heat cycling on it, and regulatory approval will still not be ready (government time). Meanwhile, advances in computing and cameras, and vigorous-rather than Tesla Beta-testing will have been completed by the competition. And still there is the regulatory wildcard. This is basically $10K of snakeoil.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,974 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
"Elon Musk announced the changes on Wednesday, saying his goal is to demonstrate a vehicle traveling in fully autonomous mode from Los Angeles to New York by the end of next year"
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
Agree. There goes the $35K base model. LOL

"Elon Musk announced the changes on Wednesday, saying his goal is to demonstrate a vehicle traveling in fully autonomous mode from Los Angeles to New York by the end of next year"
Would be easier if it's all interstates. Otherwise not so much. I love all this tech but to take it to the next level I like GM's lidar/mapping technology better than cameras and radar. It all helps though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,890 Posts
Man. Haters gonna hate, I guess.

In my view this is truly exciting and impressive from Tesla.

There goes the $35K base model. LOL.
What are you talking about?

The base price isn't changing. It's just getting a lot more hardware that might eventually allow it Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving -- if you pay to activate the software, of course. We don't know how much the activation fee will be yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
And none of it works. It takes away current autopilot for something promised months away in Tesla time. And sometime in 2018+ (again Tesla time) when software is ready, the equipment will have two plus years of vibration and heat cycling on it, and regulatory approval will still not be ready (government time). Meanwhile, advances in computing and cameras, and vigorous-rather than Tesla Beta-testing will have been completed by the competition. And still there is the regulatory wildcard. This is basically $10K of snakeoil.
It does work... the problem is the few instances the media blows up about "autopilot kills person"... is due to the fact those people don't use it correctly. (the guy was watching a harry potter movie) If I don't read the instructions and follow them while using a gun and I kill myself, are all guns evil/bad/don't work?

Autopilot has something like 780 million miles under it's belt between all the users since inception, and how many incidents have we had? How many incidents have there been in the average size city of human drivers having an accident? Fact of the matter is I would trust Tesla autopilot far far more than I would the average driver that's texting/drunk/or spaced out.

for arguments sake though, let's assume you are correct, it's garbage... Tesla has done more for the electric and autonomous movement in the past 5 years than anyone could dream of. And at the rate they are going, we will very soon be to the point where even the most old school crotchety person will have to admit the autopilot is better than your average retard behind the wheel.

I've been on the road for quite a while, I drive a lot for work, and the stupid **** I see day in and day out just amazes me. Sure we have laws against the dumb stuff I see, that still doesn't stop any of it from happening.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
We will have to see if the announcement has a positive effect or negative effect in 6 months.

Did Volvo gain share by being the "safe" car? It sorted of had the rep of being purchased by those who can't drive for shiit.

If Tesla's announcement becomes a flag as a car for the elderly or infirm, or those who lack basic hand eye coordination, will that be a good or bad thing?

In any case, nobody knows where Tesla is today compared to the other companies with semi-autonomous systems. Lane Keep, Adaptive Cruise, and Automatic Braking are available in virtually all brands today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,661 Posts
I like how the consumer doesn't have to make that choice upfront and pay for an option they may or may not actually use. I was looking at buying a new S60/75 with just ONE option (Premium package for $3500) and waiting to see if I wanted/needed AP or the bigger battery after living with the car.

I would gladly pay the extra $500 they tack on post delivery activation fees to be able to add these features later on.

Gotta give EM and Tesla props they are disrupting main stream manufactures.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
Reaction to the AP 2.0 announcement on the Tesla owner forums is far from unanimous.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,081 Posts
Well Elon did take away autopilot as the software in nowhere near ready for the hardware. It addition the autonomous drive software is 2+ years from being completed and that's even before regulatory review starts.

Tesla has no business asking for money at purchase for options that don't work. Get back to owners when the software is complete, tested meticulously, and approved by regulatory authorities.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
19,974 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
"But buried in the notes about this new functionality there was also a warning to future Tesla owners: don't expect to be able to use your EV driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other ride-sharing service that isn't owned by Tesla."

That's interesting. I guess you don't own your car, the one you paid all that money for, if you want to use it in a ride sharing program. That just seems wrong.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
Man. Haters gonna hate, I guess.
...
The base price isn't changing. It's just getting a lot more hardware that might eventually allow it Level 4 or 5 autonomous driving -- if you pay to activate the software, of course. We don't know how much the activation fee will be yet.
As mentioned in another comment, the hardware doesn't come free. Given that the $35K price was a huge stretch in the first place, adding more hardware and features isn't going to help keep prices down.

But honestly, given that Tesla is bleeding cash selling $100K cars, the chances of seeing a $35K Model 3 were fairly minuscule in the first place, so this likely doesn't materially change the odds. Probably just me, but interpreting realism as hate reminds me that "fanboys will be fanboys".

Agree that these advances are helpful. I just don't think that cameras and radar are as good as lidar and mapping.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
"But buried in the notes about this new functionality there was also a warning to future Tesla owners: don't expect to be able to use your EV driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other ride-sharing service that isn't owned by Tesla."

That's interesting. I guess you don't own your car, the one you paid all that money for, if you want to use it in a ride sharing program. That just seems wrong.
So much for Uber's plans of using autonomous Teslas. *toiletflush*
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1098997_uber-ceo-to-tesla-sell-me-half-a-million-autonomous-electric-cars-in-2020
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
"But buried in the notes about this new functionality there was also a warning to future Tesla owners: don't expect to be able to use your EV driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other ride-sharing service that isn't owned by Tesla."
Could be an issues with the "free" charging. Using the cars as taxis would run up the miles, putting stress on the superchargers which in some urban areas are already jammed. I can see the point of Tesla not wanting to offer unlimited DCFC in this circumstance. I doubt there is no legal way to prevent an owner from using the car for ride sharing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,890 Posts
"But buried in the notes about this new functionality there was also a warning to future Tesla owners: don't expect to be able to use your EV driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other ride-sharing service that isn't owned by Tesla."

That's interesting. I guess you don't own your car, the one you paid all that money for, if you want to use it in a ride sharing program. That just seems wrong.
To be clear, this would be for autonomous service only. You could still drive around in your Tesla for Uber and pick up people "manually". Or just sit there as the car does the work and drives you and your passengers around.

But for an Uber-like service with fully autonomous vehicles and no one sitting in the drivers seat, it will require a certain level of integration between the vehicle and that service/app. Stuff as simple as communicating with the vehicle and uploading the destination addresses. So if Tesla wants to create their own platform for this and keep it restricted rather than open it up to Uber and Lyft, I suppose that's their prerogative. It does seem like a bit of an odd move tho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,890 Posts
As mentioned in another comment, the hardware doesn't come free. Given that the $35K price was a huge stretch in the first place, adding more hardware and features isn't going to help keep prices down.

But honestly, given that Tesla is bleeding cash selling $100K cars, the chances of seeing a $35K Model 3 were fairly minuscule in the first place, so this likely doesn't materially change the odds.
1. Of course the added hardware isn't free. But we also don't know how much it will cost Tesla. And we don't know what the take rate will be for people paying $X,000 to fully activate the autonomous features. (It's $8,000 for the S/X. TBD for the M3.)

For example, let's say the extra sensors and processors cost Tesla $3,000 per vehicle and 50% of buyers pay Tesla $8,000 to activate the software, then it's a net plus. Of course, the R&D for the software will be costly too. But there are a lot of different ways for the financials of this to pan out, and to pretend that we know all of the internal financial details and plans is silly.

Also, a similar argument applies to the base price of the Model 3 itself. For the sake of argument, let's just assume that they'd be selling the base Model 3 a significant loss at $35k. As long as they can sell a significant number of non-base Model 3's with high-margin options, they could plausibly compensate for any base-model losses by making extra profit on these premium models.

Bottom line: the base price of the Model 3 is still $35,000, and I'd be very surprised if that changes anytime before all of the early reservation holders have had a chance to place their orders, if for no other reason than it would be a big PR black eye.

2. While Tesla is not cash-positive at the moment, that might have something to do with them spending on building the 2nd largest factory in the world for battery production, updating up a car factory to eventually be capable of building 500k cars per year, working to bring a newly designed vehicle to high-volume production, and spending on R&D to develop autonomous driving capability. They're investing massively.

I don't think they're losing any money on their actual Model S/X sales.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
716 Posts
Well that does it -- I'm out for good, no Tesla's in my future. I don't want to pay for it, I don't want the potential for being hacked, and I am certain self-driving will never come to technical fruition in my lifetime. I won't repeat my past diatribes on this self-driving foolishness. Suffice it to say, even Apple, a company that knows a lot more about software and artificial/machine intelligence than Tesla, and has a lot more capability to bring to bear on the problem, has given this pipe dream the boot.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top