GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 48 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
SUVs displace allot of air - even the new more efficient ones. They are gas hogs, especially at highway speeds.

Sedans and hatchbacks (like the Volt and Prius) can be designed to slice through the air remarkably well. They are economical and easy on the environment.

But I heard no end of criticism that American cars were gas guzzlers in the past. People once claimed to dislike wasting energy. When Nissan and Toyota created large pickups and SUVs, the criticism never seemed to apply to them.

I can understand a family needing an SUV for kids and strollers, or a camper or hunter needing one for weekend getaways. Even some seniors like them to see far ahead when driving, to protect the grandchildren in the case of a crash, or because they are easier to get in and out of than many cars.

But sadly, it has become fashionable to waste energy and dump carbon into the atmosphere. The majority of people with SUVs do not use their hauling capacity and could easily get by with a hatchback or sedan more than 99% of the time.

My 2 cents: Need to haul something big? Rent a truck for a day instead of moving all that weight and pushing all that air around 365 days a year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,763 Posts
Not all are gas guzzlers. I remember ads from a decade or so back that where advertising 36 mpg (imperial possibly) for a RAM truck (I think it was V-6).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
Not all are gas guzzlers. I remember ads from a decade or so back that where advertising 36 mpg (imperial possibly) for a RAM truck (I think it was V-6).
The most efficient SUVs are in the 25 to 30 mpg range:

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/suvs-best-gas-mileage

Real-world mpg is probably closer to 20 to 25. That might be efficient for their weight, but it's not efficient when you consider that most trips in SUVs could be accomplished just as successfully in cars that get twice the mileage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
My 2 cents: Need to haul something big? Rent a truck for a day instead of moving all that weight and pushing all that air around 365 days a year.
Oh sorry, was that your 2 cents I ran over with my 4X4? I've had it 11 years and have yet to click off 12K miles. I don't have to run to Menard's on a bicycle to rent it either. It's in my garage right now. Sometimes I even haul things in it.

You may not be aware that many GM-Volt members own pickup trucks. Some of them have them as daily drivers while their spouse drives the Volt. Others need them for work.

Surely you know that when I'm not driving my Volt I'm out looking for EVs to run off the road. I have to live up to the stereotypes slapped on me for owning a pickup you know. I don't want to disappoint any vehicle bigots.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
20,583 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
897 Posts
Surely you know that when I'm not driving my Volt I'm out looking for EVs to run off the road. I have to live up to the stereotypes slapped on me for owning a pickup you know. I don't want to disappoint any vehicle bigots.
One of you guys in a pickup truck was kind enough to haul a cabinet home from Menards last year, when it wouldn't fit in my Cruze. He refused any payment either.

Was that you, Mister Dave?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,440 Posts
SUVs, trucks and older cars are only thought of as gas guzzlers if there has been a recent spike in gas prices. The rest of the time they are just thought of as "versatile" or "safe" because gas in the US is actually very cheap relatively speaking. I think one of the reasons SUVs continue growing in popularity is because they have reached a critical mass on the highways. In other words, a car buyer is likely to think that since most other people are already in these larger vehicles, I had better get one as well so I can see in traffic and survive a collision with a heavy, high-chassis vehicle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
One of you guys in a pickup truck was kind enough to haul a cabinet home from Menards last year, when it wouldn't fit in my Cruze. He refused any payment either.

Was that you, Mister Dave?
We're funny that way. Helping people move..... stuff like that. It's a blessing and a curse.

But no, I've never been to St. Paul. Might have been someone who looks like me though! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,997 Posts
Only needed a truck twice in the last year. Rented it rather than asking for a favor. Also rented a van for a long trip for a week.

So I got the vehicle I needed, when I needed it and didn't have to provide:
1. insurance
2. payments
3. maintenance
4. parking space
5. or loan it to someone who doesn't have one.
:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,763 Posts
I had a Ford F150 that I traded two Beetles in for. Moved some stuff out to the coast (from Calgary). Used it a few times a week to take garbage out to the incinerator for a couple years. Came in handy once when the universal joint went in my '71 Javelin (half Mustang, half Camaro), used the one from my truck until I could get another. Went over to Vancouver twice to pick up some doors (regular and garage). Sold it when I sold my business. Wasn't used much but it had a straight 6 300 cube, enough power and good gas mileage. Would come in handy once in a while but so far the Tercel wagon does all the heavy lifting including bringing home an iron tub and a wall oven. Locally we have a guy with a truck that advertises on local used website. He'll transport anything for $20 flat rate.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
My 2 cents: Need to haul something big? Rent a truck for a day instead of moving all that weight and pushing all that air around 365 days a year.
My two cents.... Keep your truck and buy a smaller, more energy efficient home.

I see WAY too many "environmentaly friendly" people driving nose up in their Prius only pull into their 4000+ square foot open air home with no trees, 5000 watts of yard lights and decorative fountains all feeding me the benefits of saving gas.

They ain't saving s&$t.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
My two cents.... Keep your truck and buy a smaller, more energy efficient home.

I see WAY too many "environmentaly friendly" people driving nose up in their Prius only pull into their 4000+ square foot open air home with no trees, 5000 watts of yard lights and decorative fountains all feeding me the benefits of saving gas.

They ain't saving s&$t.
Good point. There are so many opportunities to waste resources. Silly to save in one area and spend extravagantly in another. But gas engines put carbon goes directly into the atmosphere. Using lots of natural gas/electric Heat, AC, building materials, land, etc. in a large house has a more indirect but still significant carbon footprint.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
897 Posts
Good point. There are so many opportunities to waste resources. Silly to save in one area and spend extravagantly in another. But gas engines put carbon goes directly into the atmosphere. Using lots of natural gas/electric Heat, AC, building materials, land, etc. in a large house has a more indirect but still significant carbon footprint.
Sure we have a Volt, but the two of us are also knocking around in a two story house that has to be heated etc. Someone living a few blocks away in an apartment and driving a typical car, may be living more carbon friendly than we do.

A good friend has a Prius but also flies several times a year on vacation all over the world. Someone with a gas guzzler but who never travels may be geeener.

It's hard to judge.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
I'm a huge proponent of the Volt, and usually a proponent of smaller cars, but the fact of the matter is a lot of people who use crossovers regularly use their extra cargo capacity and utility. Also, the perception that modern crossovers are gas guzzlers when compared to their hatchback/sedan brethren is wrong.

Back in the day (late 90s, early 2000s), there was truth to the gas guzzler saying about SUVs when truck-based, body on frame, V-8 powered Tahoes, Durangos, Suburbans, and Explorers were outselling RAV4s, CR-Vs, Escapes, etc. Today, not so much. What I generally see is former mid-size sedan drivers jumping up to "compact" crossovers like the CR-V, RAV4, etc, which in terms of interior space are really more comparable to a midsize sedan. The higher roofline allows for similar rear seat legroom while allowing for a shorter wheelbase, lighter car, smaller engine and a larger, taller, more versatile cargo area.

Back in the day (2003ish), you were probably getting 24 MPG in a Camry/Malibu, while the Tahoe was rated at 14 MPG (on today's more accurate EPA cycle) combined, so the sedan was nearly twice as efficient as the SUVs most people went for.

In modern cars, sedans have gotten marginally more efficient, while the volume sellers have shifted from the mid-size or full-size body on frame SUVs to compact car-based crossovers with 4 cylinder engines. I think most people trading out of a Malibu would be more likely to jump to an Equinox rather than a Tahoe. That the Equinox outsold the Tahoe 3-1 in 2017 certainly suggests that. The most efficient non-hybrid 2018 Malibu gets 30 MPG combined, while the 2018 gas powered Equinox is rated at 26 or 28 combined depending on whether you go AWD or FWD.

Heck, even the ginormous Chevy Traverse is rated at 21 MPG combined. To the extent that it has any sedan comps, I think something like an Impala or Avalon are closest, and each get 22 and 24 MPG combined, respectively, without 2 extra seats.

Even if fuel prices go up, I don't think a 7% increase in fuel economy for sedans over crossovers is going to send most drivers back to sedans.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
I know I for one won’t buy another sedan. My knees are getting worse and they sit too low making it harder to get in and out. This has been really illustrated to my when I jump from my Bolt to the wife’s Volt. The couple of inches higher on the Bolt is really nice. I don’t really care if the economy is a little worse. Now just waiting to see what my next car will be. Btw it hasn’t been made yet. I really want a 300+ mile small suv/cuv with 4wd and some ground clearance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
Even if fuel prices go up, I don't think a 7% increase in fuel economy for sedans over crossovers is going to send most drivers back to sedans.
That's true - IF you take your MPG comparisons between crossovers and sedans at face value. In fact, a Prius gets close to 50 mpg, double that of a crossover. If gas prices really rise, people will be much more interested in Prius-like MPG than Impala-like MPG.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Quote: I know I for one won’t buy another sedan. My knees are getting worse and they sit too low making it harder to get in and out.

Yes - higher cars seem much better for older people. I am not sure what the upper limit is but a Bolt (with seats at mid-height) is probably easier to get into and out of than a raised 4x4 pickup or even a Tahoe. The argument that older people need an SUV is questionable but sedans are often too low for them.

But take a look at the most slippery cars with respect to coefficient of drag or CD (all sedans or sports cars). The G2 Volt is .28 - not bad but the Mercedes C-Class is .22 (quite impressive) and about the best around for minimal wind resistance. The CD is a big factor in highway MPG.

Quote from Drivemag article below: To have a drag coefficient of under 0.28 is truly a feat, especially for a car regular car which was designed on a budget, for a budget.

https://drivemag.com/news/the-most-aerodynamic-cars-you-can-buy-right-now

But SUVs generally have CDs of .35 to .50. Bad for gas mileage especially at highway speeds. I use to wonder how PHEVs and BEVs got better gas mileage in the city than on the highway. Their low CD is a big part of the reason.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,839 Posts
My recent experience with renting SUVs, small and medium size sedans is as follows:

2017 Chevy Cruze sedan 1.4 or 1.5L 4-cyl: 29 MPG
2017 Chevy Traverse SUV, engine unknown, AWD unknown: 21 MPG
2018 Chevy Malibu sedan 1.5L 4-cyl: 25 MPG
2018 or 2019 Cadillac XT5 CUV/SUV 3.6L V6 w/AWD: 18 MPG (Caddy was brand new, had 30 miles on the odometer when I drove it over Thanksgiving 2018)

This was in Florida where the roads are flat flat flat. Speed was no more than 45 MPH for local driving except when driving on I-95 where I kept my speed to no more than 65 MPH. Plenty of long traffic signals, plenty of AC use. Each of these vehicles had stop/start engine technology. None could run the 12V accessories for longer than 30 - 40 seconds without restarting the ICE.
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
Top