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Discussion Starter #1
Looks like 40 cents per minute of an idle, connected Supercharger to your Tesla will be the tool used to get people to move their cars. I LOVE this idea! I have yet to come across a full Supercharger site, though. I'm sure some Californians aren't going to be too happy, but F- them!

https://electrek.co/2016/12/16/tesla-supercharger-idle-fees/
 

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Charging 40 cents per minute for idle vehicles is well and good, but I feel they could take it a bit further. After all, if is a law that you can't occupy an EV space while not charging, they could just have them towed. Also, if they want to push for the Superchargers to be accessible to those who most need to charge quickly, they could start introducing a smaller fee for charging after the SOC reaches a certain level (say, 80-85%).
 

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I've also noticed a slow down in building out the SC network, looks like many planned SC's on the 2016 map will be carried over to 2017. This delay especially along I-64 from St Louis to the east coast is perplexing.
 

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Not the greatest idea. It takes a while to charge and it can be uncomfortable standing around waiting. But the rule makes it difficult to do something else, say eat lunch or shop, since you have to essentially be there when the charging stops. Seems like you're making a fairly unpleasant experience more unpleasant.

I'm also wondering what happens when someone unplugs the car but doesn't move it. If the problem is taxi companies I can easily see one person being responsible for unplugging while the rest of the posse hangs out doing something else.

If free parking is the draw there is no way to combat that. If free charging is the draw the solution is to charge at a rate slightly above home charging.
 

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I'm also wondering what happens when someone unplugs the car but doesn't move it. If the problem is taxi companies I can easily see one person being responsible for unplugging while the rest of the posse hangs out doing something else.
I'm guessing Tesla's decision is based on the fact that the car is plugged in the entire time, so it will be a very good behavioral experiment to see whether people unplug but leave their cars parked. To me, that would be the ultimate sign of abuse, and those violators should have their vehicles towed.
 

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I've also noticed a slow down in building out the SC network, looks like many planned SC's on the 2016 map will be carried over to 2017. This delay especially along I-64 from St Louis to the east coast is perplexing.
I'm not certain but I would bet this has to do with reducing capitol expenditures to show a profit last quarter and also to preserve cash for the Model 3 launch.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Not the greatest idea. It takes a while to charge and it can be uncomfortable standing around waiting. But the rule makes it difficult to do something else, say eat lunch or shop, since you have to essentially be there when the charging stops. Seems like you're making a fairly unpleasant experience more unpleasant.
The Tesla smartphone app notifies you when charging is almost done, maybe 10-15 minutes prior. It also notifies you when charging is complete. Add the 5 minutes grace period to that and you've got 15-20 minutes of notice. No one is going to sit around and wait like that.


I've also noticed a slow down in building out the SC network, looks like many planned SC's on the 2016 map will be carried over to 2017. This delay especially along I-64 from St Louis to the east coast is perplexing.
They have about 50 under construction, now. Several in Texas and other "middle states." Depending on the weather, they should be done by Xmas or at least the end of the year. I've been getting emails from Tesla saying that 2-3 Superchargers around me come online every month or so. The ribbon cutting ceremonies aren't happening since it's more commonplace, now. Tesla updated the Supercharger map which shows the "under construction" ones. They tend to place the gray dots on one that are almost complete. There are many that are being constructed that aren't showing up with gray dots.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
 

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They have about 50 under construction, now. Several in Texas and other "middle states." Depending on the weather, they should be done by Xmas or at least the end of the year. I've been getting emails from Tesla saying that 2-3 Superchargers around me come online every month or so. The ribbon cutting ceremonies aren't happening since it's more commonplace, now. Tesla updated the Supercharger map which shows the "under construction" ones. They tend to place the gray dots on one that are almost complete. There are many that are being constructed that aren't showing up with gray dots.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger
That 50 must be worldwide. I only see about 10 in the United States, though maybe you are counting those that are still being permitted?

I can still see some serious gaps in the domestic Supercharger network, but I'm guessing those areas don't have many Tesla owners and aren't highly trafficked. At some point, Tesla is going to need to start building "up" rather than "out." By that, I mean that they need to expand number of chargers in densely populated, high-use areas, which does more to abate overcrowding. In addition, they need to start making their existing Superchargers faster, assuming their future offerings can capitalize on it.

Unless, Tesla only intends Superchargers to be waypoints for long-distance trips. In that case, they don't have much more to do, and they can just let the CCS network of chargers take over.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
That 50 must be worldwide. I only see about 10 in the United States, though maybe you are counting those that are still being permitted?

I can still see some serious gaps in the domestic Supercharger network, but I'm guessing those areas don't have many Tesla owners and aren't highly trafficked. At some point, Tesla is going to need to start building "up" rather than "out." By that, I mean that they need to expand number of chargers in densely populated, high-use areas, which does more to abate overcrowding. In addition, they need to start making their existing Superchargers faster, assuming their future offerings can capitalize on it.

Unless, Tesla only intends Superchargers to be waypoints for long-distance trips. In that case, they don't have much more to do, and they can just let the CCS network of chargers take over.
Didn't I just say, "There are many that are being constructed that aren't showing up with gray dots." in my post? They only update that map every month or so. Several Superchargers have had construction started and finished before they even had a chance to make it a gray dot. Click on the 2017 map and you'll get a better view of what it's starting to look like. This one is updated regularly: https://supercharge.info/

As for faster Superchargers, it's a simple upgrade to the sites, once the 350kW standard is in place: They swap out the 12 chargers per cabinet and the conductors, including the handles. The contacts, fuses, and battery on my car only support up to 120kW charging. The newer cars that have the newer cell chemistry, along with higher amp contacts and fuses, can take advantage of the 135-150kW charging. Once they switch the pack voltage to 800V, I imagine they'll be retrofitting Superchargers for 350kW. Until then, those cars should still be able to charge at the lower 120-150kW rate.

FWIW, Superchargers are based off the CCS standard. The big difference is the plug, and you rarely see free CCS chargers in the wild ;)
 

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Ah, I missed the part about it not updating. For some reason, when I loaded the map, it didn't show any gray dots at all until I toggled everything off and on again.

As for the CCS network, I was simply saying that Tesla might be intending on letting public networks pick up the slack after they build enough Superchargers to establish a coast-to-coast grid for Tesla customers. Basically, they'd only need to put in a few dozen more Superchargers to support that.
 

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.....>FWIW, Superchargers are based off the CCS standard.
>>.. you rarely see free CCS chargers in the wild ;)
>What does this statement mean? I thought SC standard was out way before CCS.
What's the ETA on the Tesla-to-CCS adapter and the card readers on the SC to pay for using them?

>>Unless you are in KC !! :cool: Then there are 15 FREE dual-Chademo/CCS 50kW DCFC stations around town.

This is what I saw on a trip home from the airport:


The Tesla has as much right to charge there as me. It was showing it was at 32% SOC. I was at an L2 and decided to move on down the road to the next DCFC ~6 miles south on my way home.

FWIW, there is a SC station in town. Can a Tesla 'Enable DCFC' without paying for access to the SC network?
 

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>What does this statement mean? I thought SC standard was out way before CCS.
What's the ETA on the Tesla-to-CCS adapter and the card readers on the SC to pay for using them?

>>Unless you are in KC !! :cool: Then there are 15 FREE dual-Chademo/CCS 50kW DCFC stations around town.

This is what I saw on a trip home from the airport:


The Tesla has as much right to charge there as me. It was showing it was at 32% SOC. I was at an L2 and decided to move on down the road to the next DCFC ~6 miles south on my way home.

FWIW, there is a SC station in town. Can a Tesla 'Enable DCFC' without paying for access to the SC network?
All current Tesla's come Supercharger enabled. Since the M3 will not be automatically supercharger enabled, I asked about DCFC enabled but non-supercharger enabled on the Tesla forums, they said it was almost as expensive to enable non-supercharger DCFC as it was to enable full supercharger access for the older Tesla's.

Keith
 

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Discussion Starter #14
All current Tesla's come Supercharger enabled. Since the M3 will not be automatically supercharger enabled, I asked about DCFC enabled but non-supercharger enabled on the Tesla forums, they said it was almost as expensive to enable non-supercharger DCFC as it was to enable full supercharger access for the older Tesla's.

Keith
All Model 3 will come Supercharger enabled. They will get 400kWh of free Supercharging per year (around 1000 miles), and will have to pay per kWh beyond that.

If you're referring to the older S60 without Supercharging, it's only a few hundred more to enable full Supercharging over getting the CHAdeMO adapter and enabling it.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
>What does this statement mean? I thought SC standard was out way before CCS.
What's the ETA on the Tesla-to-CCS adapter and the card readers on the SC to pay for using them?

>>Unless you are in KC !! :cool: Then there are 15 FREE dual-Chademo/CCS 50kW DCFC stations around town.

This is what I saw on a trip home from the airport:

The Tesla has as much right to charge there as me. It was showing it was at 32% SOC. I was at an L2 and decided to move on down the road to the next DCFC ~6 miles south on my way home.

FWIW, there is a SC station in town. Can a Tesla 'Enable DCFC' without paying for access to the SC network?
Yes, those 15 free combo stations are rare, when you look at the US. And yes, the CCS protocol is similar to Tesla's Supercharging. The difference is the connector. Tesla is a member of CharIN, the governing body for CCS, so a CCS-to-Supercharger or Supercharger-to-CCS adapter could be released, any time. Nothing has been officially announced, yet.
 

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I don't have a problem with charging for the electricity, why should it be free? That electricity and the stations cost *someone* to put in and operate, so why not pass the expense on? I get trying to offer it as an incentive to get people to go electric, but I think offering indefinite free electricity is pushing it, especially given the amount needed to charge a car. I think if I owned an expensive Tesla I would be a bit more upset about it than someone with a cheaper EV, but still.

As for the abuse, I have already seen it in my area. For example, there is a Whole Foods that has two charging stations and there is ALWAYS a Nissan Leaf plugged into one of them that seems to never move. I know it's not an employee, so I'm thinking it belongs to someone in the apartments across the street as the car is there every time I go by, regardless of time of day or day of the week. Making that person pay for it to be hooked up would stop that and free the space up for other people who need it. There is also an AT&T store with a few charging stations, but their store Volt is always taking up one of them.

This is why I'm gravitating towards the Volt because of the backup generator. That way if I am low on juice and I encounter something like what I mentioned above, at least I know I can get home. But other than that, we're dealing with human nature and people just being jerks - something that is all too prevalent in our society anymore.
 

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The Whole Foods in my area require a store rep to activate the charger. If the same is true for your store, that person more than likely knows someone who works there.

And it's reasons like that I (and I believe a lot of Volt owners) am so confused by the elitism and vitriol displayed by other EV owners towards the Volt. Not everyone can charge at home consistently. Not everyone can charge at work consistently. At least the Volt gives those people an EV option they wouldn't have otherwise.
 

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I've also noticed a slow down in building out the SC network, looks like many planned SC's on the 2016 map will be carried over to 2017. This delay especially along I-64 from St Louis to the east coast is perplexing.
Looks like they are adding some diagonal routes and filling inbetween in others (Model 3 and Model S60 and winter traveling use cases). Stare at CO and then TX for a few seconds to see what I mean.

planned-2016-vs-planned-2017

GIF I made that is a little crude but helps visualize.
s24.postimg.org/9xpfy902d/planned_2016_vs_planned_2017.gif
 

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The Whole Foods in my area require a store rep to activate the charger. If the same is true for your store, that person more than likely knows someone who works there.

And it's reasons like that I (and I believe a lot of Volt owners) am so confused by the elitism and vitriol displayed by other EV owners towards the Volt. Not everyone can charge at home consistently. Not everyone can charge at work consistently. At least the Volt gives those people an EV option they wouldn't have otherwise.
This one doesn't and neither did the one I used to work at - interesting to hear that one of the locations actually required an employee to activate.
 

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All Model 3 will come Supercharger enabled. They will get 400kWh of free Supercharging per year (around 1000 miles), and will have to pay per kWh beyond that.

If you're referring to the older S60 without Supercharging, it's only a few hundred more to enable full Supercharging over getting the CHAdeMO adapter and enabling it.
Wait, what, you have to enable something in addition to getting a CHAdeMO adapter? What needs to be enabled?
 
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