GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
More like the late afternoon. A lot can happen between now and 2020 when these bans go into effect. Also, Volvo isn't eliminating ICE, they're just supplementing it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
I think California tried to make 10% of new cars ev by 2000. They repealed that when it was obvious that it wasn't possible. Hard to legislate changes if people don't like it.
Ev's will continue to grow in market share. IMHO there are a few hurdles that need to passed before it becomes normal to have an ev vs an ice. I have two ev and one ice, the ice isn't in danger of getting replaced with an ev any time soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,488 Posts
Volvo, the same car manufacture where nearly all the gasoline engines are required or recommended to be operated on premium gasoline and not regular 87 octane gasoline. Seems Volvo has some backward thinking here, when Honda has their 1.5 turbo making 190 HP on 87 octane.

To me a gasoline engine is a fail if it can not operate on regular 87 octane gas available anywhere. One of the reasons we purchased a 2016 Volt and traded in our 2014 Volt, as the 2014 Volt 1.4 engine has a required premium gas use only, even though we used 87 octane and never had any issues or noticed any difference over premium gas. Our 2016 Volt runs great on 87 octane and for the last 230 gas miles averaged over 52 mpg just on gas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Volvo, the same car manufacture where nearly all the gasoline engines are required or recommended to be operated on premium gasoline and not regular 87 octane gasoline. Seems Volvo has some backward thinking here, when Honda has their 1.5 turbo making 190 HP on 87 octane.

To me a gasoline engine is a fail if it can not operate on regular 87 octane gas available anywhere. One of the reasons we purchased a 2016 Volt and traded in our 2014 Volt, as the 2014 Volt 1.4 engine has a required premium gas use only, even though we used 87 octane and never had any issues or noticed any difference over premium gas. Our 2016 Volt runs great on 87 octane and for the last 230 gas miles averaged over 52 mpg just on gas.
All modern engines will run just fine on 87 octane, as electronics retard the timing as necessary to account for whatever the octane is. For a company like Volvo it's as much marketing as anything else to "recommend" higher octane. There are a few high performance engines out there that really require 91+ octane, but I know I can't afford any of them. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
All modern engines will run just fine on 87 octane, as electronics retard the timing as necessary to account for whatever the octane is. For a company like Volvo it's as much marketing as anything else to "recommend" higher octane. There are a few high performance engines out there that really require 91+ octane, but I know I can't afford any of them. :)
Not really. When the ECU retards timing to protect the engine on 87 octane it throws away up to 10% of the efficiency of the engine. I don't call this running fine.

I do agree that Volvo's statement is as much marketing as anything else. They aren't doing away with ICE, just adding electric to the drive train. It remains to be seen if Volvo is serious and starts producing long range PHEV and BEVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
532 Posts
The sun of ICE set for me 4 years ago. Granted, I now drive a Volt but three years prior to that I was all EV. I would also have been all EV this time around if I could have gotten a decent lease on a Bolt.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,011 Posts
I think California tried to make 10% of new cars ev by 2000. They repealed that when it was obvious that it wasn't possible. Hard to legislate changes if people don't like it.
Ev's will continue to grow in market share. IMHO there are a few hurdles that need to passed before it becomes normal to have an ev vs an ice. I have two ev and one ice, the ice isn't in danger of getting replaced with an ev any time soon.
They're managing almost 3% this year so far. And that's before the M3 registrations start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Not really. When the ECU retards timing to protect the engine on 87 octane it throws away up to 10% of the efficiency of the engine. I don't call this running fine.
That actually is fine. Obviously the higher octane gas will run more efficiently. Even a car advertised to run on 87 octane will run more efficiently on 91, and get better mpg. But it doesn't require it. By the same token any modern mass market Volvo, MB, or BMW will run just fine on 87 octane, with no ill engine effects, although producing less power and less mpg.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,180 Posts
That actually is fine. Obviously the higher octane gas will run more efficiently. Even a car advertised to run on 87 octane will run more efficiently on 91, and get better mpg. But it doesn't require it. By the same token any modern mass market Volvo, MB, or BMW will run just fine on 87 octane, with no ill engine effects, although producing less power and less mpg.
And more tailpipe emissions. In the US, the EPA uses a special 0% ethanol 91 octane gas blend when running the dynometer tests for fuel economy and emissions numbers. Until this changes 87 octane in an engine designed for 91 octane will have the above noted impacts - less power, less mpg, and more emissions. And yes, depending on the car you can feel the difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,617 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
And more tailpipe emissions. In the US, the EPA uses a special 0% ethanol 91 octane gas blend when running the dynometer tests for fuel economy and emissions numbers. Until this changes 87 octane in an engine designed for 91 octane will have the above noted impacts - less power, less mpg, and more emissions. And yes, depending on the car you can feel the difference.
No argument with you there. But in the old day, the wrong octane would cause your engine to knock and be potentially damaging. Those days are gone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,488 Posts
The U.S. EPA uses a special blend of 0% ethanol 91 octane gas. What, the same U.S. that shoved the benefits of Ethanol gas down our throats now for years, yet they use a gasoline, with no, thats 0% ethanol in the gas when conducting EPA tests for new model cars.

The rest of us, well 98% of the driving U.S. public uses 10%ethanol in our gasoline thats all grades, so why should the EPA conduct a test with 0% Ethanol gasoline, which nearly no drivers have the ability to buy, or obtain for their cars, the standard should be 10% Ethanol blend in all grades of gas for testing. This is pure common sense in my book for all standards for testing. What a concept, the same fuel used for EPA mileage testing that all of the driving public uses.

Also I live 5 blocks from the Pacific Ocean. Try to find one boater who favors ethanol in their gasoline to power their boat motors, I'll save you the time and trouble because you won't find any....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
Car noob, but I understand a higher octane combusts at a higher energy and thus endures higher compression ratios (more power), correct? This is why high-performance engines need them. So, say my Volt suffers from afterfire on 87 (10% ethanol) gas. If I ran 89 or even 91, afterfire should be less likely, correct? I'm assuming the afterfire means unburnt fuel is making it to the exhaust and when it meets a hot element it produces the afterfire BANG effect. If 89+ fuel was used, would this be more difficult to ignite along the exhaust route, especially with lower pressure?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
Octane is simple a measure of how hard it is to ignite the mixture under specific conditions in a knock engine. Originally is was the % of octane equal to the tested fuel in a knock engine. Octane rating does not relate to energy content or burn speed.

Also gas is a mix of hydrocarbons than is approximately c7h14. Mix depends on laws and what is cheap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,011 Posts
Car noob, but I understand a higher octane combusts at a higher energy and thus endures higher compression ratios (more power), correct? This is why high-performance engines need them. So, say my Volt suffers from afterfire on 87 (10% ethanol) gas. If I ran 89 or even 91, afterfire should be less likely, correct? I'm assuming the afterfire means unburnt fuel is making it to the exhaust and when it meets a hot element it produces the afterfire BANG effect. If 89+ fuel was used, would this be more difficult to ignite along the exhaust route, especially with lower pressure?
Nope, it's PURELY how resistant the stuff is to spontaneous combustion when squeezed during the compression stroke. That's exactly what you WANT it to do in a diesel, but for a normal engine, you need the thing to burn exactly when the spark lights, and not before. Higher compression engines don't get the oomph from the different fuel, they get it from the longer power stroke, and the higher octane is important to make sure that burn doesn't happen before it should. Like on the upstroke.
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top