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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All -

EMW JuiceBox project is NOW LIVE ON KICKSTARTER and ENGADGET!
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1076207974/emw-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-ev-charging-st
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/24/emw-kick-starts-juicebox-a-99-level-2-diy-charging-station/

EMW JuiceBox is an Open Source Level 2 EV Charging station. DIY kit version starts at $99 and is capable of up to 15kW charging. Slated to be released in August in both DIY kit and completely assembled versions.

Electric Motor Werks (http://www.eMotorWerks.com) is an Electric Vehicle company best known for its high-performance EV conversions and high-performance power electronics products. EMW is also known for its open-source 12kW intelligent EV charging system: http://www.emotorwerks.com/tech/electronics

The number of early delivery spots is limited - get yours today by going to KickStarter link above and submitting your pledge today!

Thanks,
EMW Power Electronics crew.
 

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What makes this different than OpenEVSE which is an open source solution that's already up and running?
 

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I pledged for $239 ($219 Premium kit + shipping), yet I have no VOLT!
 

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That looks AWESOME! I used to solder for a living way back in the day when I worked for a telecommunications company that produced their own adapters and line simulators. That could be fun to build!

I know my Voltec will fail, it's just a matter of time. I really like this solution as a replacement!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Steverino,
Good question.

A couple of reasons for going with a completely different design:
1. We are reusing the platform that we have successfully worked with in our other products (e.g., our 12kW charging system, our motor control system, etc.)
2. We wanted it to be compatible with the existing Arduino shield ecosystem
3. We needed to optimize the design for manufacturability and needed to change the design substantially.
4. We needed more optionality in design in order to allow for $99 price point.

You can also expect a requisite level of support from EMW around the kits. Starting from the detailed manuals to EMW-moderated product forums. For example, check out our manual for the previous Open Source project - a 12kW EV charging system here: http://emotorwerks.com/VMcharger_V12P/EMW-12000_PFC-V12-Build_Notes.pdf.
 

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Not a novel idea or a highly-needed product. Having a low cost DIY is great, but we already have that via OpenEVSE and its unclear what value add this provides. Saying "We are reusing the platform that we have successfully worked with in our other products (e.g., our 12kW charging system, our motor control system, etc.) " is value for you, not for me.

More over, I would never buy from a company that works so hard to hide the true cost (no where in the body is the costs of the J1772 connector discussed.. (which is $149 on the http://emotorwerks.com/products/online-store).
More significantly, in comparing prices its comparing it to complete units. If a company pushing "opensource" hides information and misleads like that, how much should I trust anything else they tell me?
 

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tboult, I think you are being a little harsh. I agree that the quick summary at the top of the EMW JuiceBox kickstarter page is misleading and compares the basic $99 unit to the total cost of other EVSE's. However, if you read further on it does specifically state that you need to add input and output cables (e.g., J1772 cable and AC cord with standard dryer plug). They even state the reason for not including them in the pricing is that people will have different situations and needs and they did not want to have many different reward levels to accommodate all of these situations. Additionally, in the pledges section, they do indicate the additional input and output cables will run $150-200. When I read the entire post it did not appear that they were hiding anything including the true costs.

I am surprised that this kickstarter project is not one of the hottest threads on this forum. I thought people would be all over this. Level 2, 240V, 60A, 15kW, $109 for the basic kit, 1-2 hours assembly time, $200 or so for input and output cables ($149 for a 25 foot J1772 cable which leaves $50 leftover for a 240V dryer cord). That's about $300 for a working EVSE with long cables. Only another $90 if you want them to put it together for you. From my understanding, its the same price as the parts for OpenEVSE without any of the time invested in figuring it all out and buying parts from separate vendors. With the 30 percent tax credit, the total cost is reduced to $200.

In my situation, I have a three year Volt lease and planned on just charging at 120V because it didn't seem to make sense on buying an EVSE for $450 - $1000. The cheapest is the $450 Bosch unit and that is only rated at 16A with a 12 foot cord which doesn't meet my needs.
 

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tboult, I think you are being a little harsh. I agree that the quick summary at the top of the EMW JuiceBox kickstarter page is misleading and compares the basic $99 unit to the total cost of other EVSE's. However, if you read further on it does specifically state that you need to add input and output cables (e.g., J1772 cable and AC cord with standard dryer plug). They even state the reason for not including them in the pricing is that people will have different situations and needs and they did not want to have many different reward levels to accommodate all of these situations. Additionally, in the pledges section, they do indicate the additional input and output cables will run $150-200. When I read the entire post it did not appear that they were hiding anything including the true costs.

I am surprised that this kickstarter project is not one of the hottest threads on this forum. I thought people would be all over this. Level 2, 240V, 60A, 15kW, $109 for the basic kit, 1-2 hours assembly time, $200 or so for input and output cables ($149 for a 25 foot J1772 cable which leaves $50 leftover for a 240V dryer cord). That's about $300 for a working EVSE with long cables. Only another $90 if you want them to put it together for you. From my understanding, its the same price as the parts for OpenEVSE without any of the time invested in figuring it all out and buying parts from separate vendors. With the 30 percent tax credit, the total cost is reduced to $200.

In my situation, I have a three year Volt lease and planned on just charging at 120V because it didn't seem to make sense on buying an EVSE for $450 - $1000. The cheapest is the $450 Bosch unit and that is only rated at 16A with a 12 foot cord which doesn't meet my needs.

I prefer to call it being frank (but since I missed the actual number maybe just a little harsh). I deal with student startups all the time and find speaking frankly/plainly is important to help cut through the "green" colored glasses they are wearing.

I had not see the J1772 in the pledge section since I read the whole body to see what I was getting, them searched for the pricing of premium (I want the LCD) and reached a decision.. So it is there somewhere if you read the "basic" pledge all the way through, but I still consider it misleading to not have it in the body.

Maybe people are not all over it because it was not presented well, or more likely, because they analyzed it deeper. If they said the all-in cost, did a meaningful comparison with OpenEVSE (for which $135 gets a bas... kit with LCD and $200 for assembled with LCD they might get more traction. The true DIY kit for openEVSE (ordering bare boards and parts) only pays off if you build a few.

From my analysis their jukebox saves $25 over the openEVSE kit but costs $45 more for a kit with LCD (what I would want). They want $45 more for an assembled basic kit than the comparable OpenEVSE, and and a lot more for an assembled box with LCD (though they do include the housing). So they don't compare in a meaningful way. Earning trust in a startup effort is critical, and emphasizing the wrong things, not honestly discussing the important things (total cost) and an improper comparison are an instant turnoff. I'm not taking a risk with them.

I wish them luck, but more I hope they learn to improve their messaging/presentation.
 

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Steverino,
Good question.

A couple of reasons for going with a completely different design:
Thanks, but I don't feel you really addressed the question from the perspective of the buyer.

What makes your solution superior to openEVSE?
What benefits does your solution provide to me that openEVSE does not?
Why should I buy your solution over openEVSE?
 

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tboult, I think you are being a little harsh. I agree that the quick summary at the top of the EMW JuiceBox kickstarter page is misleading and compares the basic $99 unit to the total cost of other EVSE's. However, if you read further on it does specifically state that you need to add input and output cables (e.g., J1772 cable and AC cord with standard dryer plug).
I'm not following this. How is it ok to use a 30 amp dryer plug/cord to connect a 60amp device? Shouldn't this be connected with a plug/receptacle rated for 60 amps like this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-9462-P-Straight-Industrial-Grounding/dp/B00271GWW0

Personally at 60 amps I would feel better having it hard wired with a service disconnect switch right before it.
 

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I'm not following this. How is it ok to use a 30 amp dryer plug/cord to connect a 60amp device? Shouldn't this be connected with a plug/receptacle rated for 60 amps like this one?
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-9462-P-Straight-Industrial-Grounding/dp/B00271GWW0

Personally at 60 amps I would feel better having it hard wired with a service disconnect switch right before it.
You can set the EMS JuiceBox to charge at any limit below the rated 60A. For example, you can set it for a limit of 30A and hook it up to a 40A breaker and then buy corresponding (less expensive) rated input and output cables. The $149 J1772 cable they sell is rated for 32A. This is plenty for the Volt which maxes out at less than 20A.
 

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how safe is this to buy/order?
 

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Why I orderd the Kickstarter -

1. I don't want to soder, yet I don't want to spend 600 for a level 2 charger
2. OpenEVSE is confusing. Sure you can get everything from them, but there are very few tutorials that lay things out well enough for me to want to risk hooking up my 40k car.
3. Ship date - July 2013. The prebuilt OpenEVSE components were looking at 6-8 week lead time, assuming I can get the cables from EMW, it should ship completed and ready for me to plug and play by the end of the month (I'm hopeful).

Yes I know I could probably save more by doing OpenEVSE myself, but the timeline, and cost of my time to figure things out, are just not worth it.

It's your own choice, but at least in my mind this was certainly worth it. Now I'm just trying to figure out how to get my cable linked in to my order.
 

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The Kickstart EVSE offer has improved. If the total amount reaches $40,000 they will include Wi-Fi for free, so one can monitor their EVSE remotely. This is great for those who don't have OnStar service (like me). I believe they will reach it because as of today (July 10th) they have over $20,000 pledged (including my $219) and still have 14 days to go. Here is more information:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1076207974/emw-juicebox-an-open-source-level-2-ev-charging-st

As a fact, I pledged because I want an EVSE that can be upgraded to supply up to 60 amps at 240 VAC (over 14 KW) per hour for all future EVs, yet I don't have any EV!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
EMW JuiceBox has reached its initial funding goal on kickstarter

Hi Guys - EMW here.

EMW has announced that Juicebox kickstarter campaign has reached its initial funding goal on July 10th, 2013 - with 13 days left to go.
Thank you all for your great support! The JuiceBox is now REAL!
On to the stretch goal of $40K to make it a Wi-Fi ready!

If kickstarter reaches $40K goal EMW R&D will write all the support software to make WiFi Shield plug and play. EMW will also launch an online service that will allow you to access your JuiceBox and get stats / analysis / real-time status etc.

EMW will also make WiFi shields available through EMW store and you would be able to add that as an option before we ship your unit. The current 'official' seller of the official Arduino WiFi shield is SparkFun: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11287. EMW plans to source their own stock and expect to be able to offer that at a better price. EMW team is already testing a couple of shields to make sure they hit the right combination of reliability and cost.

To read more on the latest JuiceBox news and media coverage go to: http://emotorwerks.com/index.php?op...81&subid=460-39b115ed193021f15d2122a07d20f4da

EMW JuiceBox team
 

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I have a question for the original poster....

Does your system meet the national or any state electrical codes?

I am wondering if I would have a problem getting it inspected and passed by our city inspector...
 

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I'm following this with keen interest, as I live in a rented condo with a common garage, so 1) low cost of investment and 1b) ease of relocation are important to my situation.
 

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I became a backer. I have already made the Open EVSE charger and it works great. However, as someone said this is more expensive I do not see that. I spent just over $500 on the open EVSE because of all the extra parts you need. The waterproof case, cables, screws, wires, etc. It all added up quite fast. This one is ready to go less the cable so for now it will be a great backup system. One other thing to note is I had to wait over 3 months to get my Open EVSE board. They are backlogged quite a bit and the instructions there are not quite that easy to follow. I'm looking forward to getting this new charger.
 
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