Stellantis Closing Plant, Needs $ for EV Development

Wow. Same folks who were telling us all along that traditional ICE vehicles will continue to be built alongside EVs, now completely nonchalant about traditional vehicle plant shutdowns. Now the manufacturers were just "slow to react". Can't expect those ICE jobs to stick around forever. Oops, never mind about what we said before.

Sorry Belvedere, you were once a Chrysler plant that became a Jeep plant when Chrysler bought Jeep from AMC. You survived Daimler Chrysler and up to now, Stellantis. Beginning in 1965, you made Plymouths, then K-Cars, Neons, Jeep Compasses, Patriots and currently Wagoneers. Affordable cars that kept Illinois and Wisconsin residents employed in UAW and white collar jobs.

Sorry about the lost jobs, we have to invest in the green future these folks never wanted or asked for. Well, the state of Illinois would have killed Belvedere sooner or later through regulations and taxes. Why does Illinois hate the middle class. As well, seemingly our current DC administration. Oh, but there is a marvelous new green economy coming. Tell the kids they can wait for dinner.

Cloudnine said:

Wow. Same folks who were telling us all along that traditional ICE vehicles will continue to be built alongside EVs,

Click to expand...

Was it "they" or "them" or "I heard" who said this? Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, Stellantis did not say traditional ICE vehicles will not continue to be built alongside EVs. In fact it said it's product mix will be about 50/50 in 2030.

Cloudnine said:

Why does Illinois hate the middle class. As well, seemingly our current DC administration.

Click to expand...

You forgot to add, "and hates America" to your red herrings.

Let me try out your approach:
Stellantis is a corporation and as we know, corporations are people too. Why do you hate people?
Stellantis is a capitalist organization, why do you hate capitalism?

No one wants to be the last cathode ray tube TV manufacturer. Cars and trucks are changing.

By the way, I saw that GM's new Ultium plant in Ohio (next store to the Lordstown plant it closed) just voted to join the UAW. GM's building 3 more of these megafactories.

Cloud Nine, in response to the Sellantis plant closing news you said:

"Same folks who were telling us all along that traditional ICE vehicles will continue to be built alongside EVs, now completely nonchalant about traditional vehicle plant shutdowns."
Nothing to back up that statement but you later seem imply that I am to blame for Stellantis making a business decision? or something?

Then you go on,

"Well, the state of Illinois would have killed Belvedere sooner or later through regulations and taxes."
In actual fact it is Stellantis who is closing the plant. You seem desperate to blame Illinois instead.

And you finish with,

"Why does Illinois hate the middle class. As well, seemingly our current DC administration."
Again, more broad brush blaming of Illinois (and now DC) for something Stellantis did. No matter what Stellantis did, blame Illinois, blame DC, blame me, lol.

Here's what I think, Stellantis was caught flat footed and asleep while their leaky ship headed into stormy waters. Now they are trying to bail to keep the ship afloat. Contrast that with Marry Barra and crew who started work years ago to get GM shipshape financially and product-wise (EV's). I don't know if she will succeed, but she's been planning and executing and I think GM is now in a good position to stay in business as an EV manufacturer and even be one of the leaders.

For the Stellantis people losing their jobs? I've been laid off in the past and it's awful. If possible they may want to check out a new carreer in say, plumbing or other trades. Good, well paying jobs and there's almost a perpetual shortage. Plus it's hard to outsource a plumbing job...

Quoting, rom today's WSJ:

"Stellantis broke the news to workers on Friday that it will idle the Cherokee plant in February, citing “the increasing cost related to the electrification of the automotive market.” Merry Christmas! The Jeep Cherokee has been a popular model, though the plant has cut shifts since 2019.

But Stellantis, which formed through the merger of France’s PSA Group and Italian-American Fiat Chrysler, needs to come up with money to finance the more than $35 billion that it plans to invest in EVs over the next few years. Government industrial policy doesn’t give the company much of a choice.
Europe and several U.S. states have announced plans to ban the sale of new internal-combustion engine vehicles by 2035. Stellantis spent $2.4 billion to buy regulatory credits from Tesla between 2019 and 2021 to comply with green mandates. The Biden fuel economy mandates could force it to spend more unless it ramps up EV production.

The Inflation Reduction Act’s generous credits for battery production and EV buyers are modestly easing the costs of this government-forced transition. Many auto makers currently use profits from gas-powered SUVs and trucks to subsidize EVs that are losing money. They hope that sweetened government subsidies will eventually make EVs profitable, but in the meantime companies need to choose where to make investments and where to cut back.

Liberals pretend that the transition to EVs won’t come at a cost to workers or businesses. But taxpayers won’t foot the entire bill, which could cost hundreds of billions of dollars industrywide. Workers at Stellantis’s Cherokee plant are the collateral damage of this government-forced reallocation of capital. We’re waiting for Sens. Sherrod Brown and Bernie Sanders to plead for the workers here. The United Auto Workers is denouncing Stellantis for laying off workers. “Not allocating new product to plants like Belvidere is unacceptable,” UAW President Ray Curry said. What did he expect? The union backed stricter fuel economy mandates and the IRA subsidies, even though its own studies showed the shift to EVs could cost 35,000 jobs.

Technological change disrupts markets and leads to some job gains and losses. But the problem here is that government is overriding market forces and picking the winners and losers. Auto makers’ enormous investments in EVs are largely being driven by political choices, not consumer choice. Politicians in Washington and state capitals, not business owners or executives, are calling the shots. Labor dislocations caused by government climate subsidies and mandates will play out across the economy in the coming years. At least in the current tight labor market, most workers who lose their jobs can probably find new ones, though they may be lower-paying or require moving. But when government picks winners and losers, there are almost always more of the latter. The politicians don’t tell you about those." Unquote.

Posting this so that everyone understands that the choices being made are government choices, not consumer choices. I think our basic disagreement is whether government, or instead, consumers, should be picking winners and losers.

"Same folks who were telling us all along that traditional ICE vehicles will continue to be built alongside EVs, now completely nonchalant about traditional vehicle plant shutdowns.

Click to expand...

"I found the previous statement. It's on this page. And no, I never implied you are to blame."
GM CEO Mary Barra chip shortage, electric trucks, and the outlook for EV investment and adoption. | Page 2 | GM Volt Forum (gm-volt.com)

• Your link is to my observation "Keep in mind we'll still have ICE's on the road for the next 20 years even as a shift to EV's occurs." I suspect you read into that more than I said.
• My observation was not about what types of cars will be built by Stellantis (or GM) in 20 years. Instead, it's about whether there will be ICE's on the road.
• But let's go broader. Just because GM switches to all EV's by 2035 does not mean all ICE cars will be taken off the road. Cars last 10-15-20 years, right? A new GM ICE sold in 2034 or 2035 will still be in operation 7 years later in 2042. So, again, in 20 years (2042) there will still be ICE's on the road.
• As far as who will be building ICE's in 10 or 20 years I don't know. But Toyota is still talking about keeping ICE vehicles in their line-up, and Ford has split the company into two: an ICE division and an EV division.
• In that thread's video, Mary Barra very clearly said (and I repeated) GM's target is 50% of their sales being EV by 2030 and 100% by 2035. She did not say, "We will make ICE's forever, nor did she comment on Stellantis.
• Whether "the same folks" you reference is Mary Barra or me, neither of us were saying anything about Stellantis or it's ICE plans, or its Illinois plant closing.

What we know is traditional ICE's will continue to be built alongside EV's during GM's transition over the next 13 years. Other manufactures like Stellantis? Check their announcements.