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Eventually one of these will lead to something. Now that there is a ready market, innovation will eventually result in both incremental improvements as well as some breakthroughs.
 

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Prof. John Goodenough is one of the nicest gentleman you could meet, and I have had the opportunity to serve with him on an advisory board for a small battery company. Despite his age, he still goes to the lab nearly every day to work to advance battery science and technology. I attended a meeting in Austin last December to listen to him discussing the advances his team have made on the solid-state battery. If anyone can make a battery work, it is John.
 

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Prof. John Goodenough is one of the nicest gentleman you could meet, and I have had the opportunity to serve with him on an advisory board for a small battery company. Despite his age, he still goes to the lab nearly every day to work to advance battery science and technology. I attended a meeting in Austin last December to listen to him discussing the advances his team have made on the solid-state battery. If anyone can make a battery work, it is John.
It sounds as if patents are in the process or are to be file, so I would not expect to much specific information to come from these press releases. However, since you have some insight in project, did they mention how far along they were in field testing and whether all components necessary to build the battery were readily available and in abundant supply? there seems a number be a number of technologies being developed for batteries. Be fascinating which one or ones win out.
 

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Solid state batteries seem most likely to be the next breakthrough. We know other companies like Sakti3 have had at least some success -- Dyson is spending $1.5B to develop that technology -- and if Goodenough says this one will work it likely will.
 

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It sounds as if patents are in the process or are to be file, so I would not expect to much specific information to come from these press releases. However, since you have some insight in project, did they mention how far along they were in field testing and whether all components necessary to build the battery were readily available and in abundant supply? there seems a number be a number of technologies being developed for batteries. Be fascinating which one or ones win out.
Based on the information presented, I think it is a bit premature to for field testing. Currently lab testing is underway. John Goodenough and his team developed Lithium Iron Phosphate as a cathode material. He also discovered the beneficial properties of Lithium Cobalt Oxide as a cathode. Development of Li-ion cells using these cathode materials took some time going from the lab to prototype to field tests. When a company gets interested, signs a license agreement, then perhaps progress will be more rapid. Just my thoughts.
 

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Isn't one issue that with liquid interfaces they don't get damaged by vibration, but a solid electrolyte against a solid electrode might suffer failure from vibration? So they might work in the lab or stationary applications (still useful) but have problems out on the road?
 

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This really makes sense to me. It seems to be the natural progression of battery technology. FLA to AGM. Why not LiON to solid-state Li, Na, or K.
 

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Interesting thought on the vibration and solid state batteries, but since we have solid state electronics that do not fail in moving vehicles, I would hope that IF that even becomes a problem it would be easy to fix.

In real world application if solid state was 3x the density per Kg and volume required it would be game changing... The Bolt would get a 600-700 mile range. Ari_C would break 1,000 after pumping the tires up and going in circles for 24 hours and taking a pack of Dramamine.

One thing what will obviously have to be thoroughly tested is how resistant to exploding or spontaneously combustion it is. If it's damaged or damaged and gets wet - what happens? Some of the materials mentioned do not mix well with water...

Either way, exciting times for batteries.
 

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Interesting thought on the vibration and solid state batteries, but since we have solid state electronics that do not fail in moving vehicles, I would hope that IF that even becomes a problem it would be easy to fix.
Solid state electronics doesn't rely on surfaces simply positioned next to each other, they are all bonded/welded/soldered/crystallised together.

I have no idea of the severity of any possible issues, but I'd guess it is going to be an extra little hurdle in the route to commercialisation, and that route is going to be long and difficult even without potential challenges like that.

I wish it all well, of course, but ..... Li has been maturing for 30 years now and only really got out onto the road 10 years ago, and people are still researching and optimising the technology. In the last 5 years battery capacity in cars has gone up 50%, so if it was a simple step to take a known working battery and optimise it for cars, why didn't we have those batteries back in the mid 00's?
 

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Based on the information presented, I think it is a bit premature to for field testing. Currently lab testing is underway. John Goodenough and his team developed Lithium Iron Phosphate as a cathode material. He also discovered the beneficial properties of Lithium Cobalt Oxide as a cathode. Development of Li-ion cells using these cathode materials took some time going from the lab to prototype to field tests. When a company gets interested, signs a license agreement, then perhaps progress will be more rapid. Just my thoughts.
thanks for your input. Looks as though we will be using improved lithium batteries EVs as well for residential backup for a number of years to come, along with solar salt, and magnesium batteries to augment them commercial based storage.
 

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I'll push the envelope and say we should skip improving batteries and just get Mr Fusion working so you won't need a big battery, just something big anough to store some regen and give you energy to start up again until the Mr. Fusion spins up.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It takes a long time for innovation and it isn't easy. Never said easy. I just don't see if vibration is the ONLY thing left stopping this from being used in a vehicle it will kill it. If vibration is that big of an issue, it won't make it out of the lab. Still waiting for that awesome graphene battery an Israeli firm said they had... wonder what is slowing that down or stopping it.

Current tech has an operating temp problem. Solved or at least mitigated by cooling or heating the pack... It's obvious that GM has the right idea as the Volt is one of the only vehicles to not suffer battery pack losses like the companies that are not doing thermal management the same way.

It has only been maybe 10-15 years ago that companies have been putting a lot of work an effort as a whole into making a better battery. Yes people have been working on it, and I don't want to diminish their work or success. I am talking about as a whole. but the total combined effort was nowhere near what it is today. I see a "Who can build the best battery" race happening right now. Just my opinion, if someone has facts to prove me wrong, please post them. I'll gladly recant that statement.
 

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I'll push the envelope and say we should skip improving batteries and just get Mr Fusion working so you won't need a big battery, just something big anough to store some regen and give you energy to start up again until the Mr. Fusion spins up.
The potential of super capacitors may strip the need for large battery packs, but again its far into the future.
 

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The potential of super capacitors may strip the need for large battery packs, but again its far into the future.
Previously, two main drawbacks to super capacitors were energy density and cost. If this could be overcome, then they could be a strong competitor to batteries. So we will have to wait for more advances on both technologies to see if one emerges as a winner for EVs.
 

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I'll push the envelope and say we should skip improving batteries and just get Mr Fusion working so you won't need a big battery, just something big anough to store some regen and give you energy to start up again until the Mr. Fusion spins up.
Go for it. I know you have the smarts to do something like that...
 

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Previously, two main drawbacks to super capacitors were energy density and cost. If this could be overcome, then they could be a strong competitor to batteries. So we will have to wait for more advances on both technologies to see if one emerges as a winner for EVs.
Both still are. Contemporary "ultracapacitors" hold less power than plain flooded starter batteries by volume and cost about $1500 to do it. What they're GOOD FOR is being able to deliver all that power in a couple minutes, charge back up again just as fast and then do it again, hundreds of thousands of times, or be able to hold that full charge with a trickle of maintenance, for years without attention, and still work when they need to.
 

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