GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,192 Posts
Model 3 is ~75KWh usable in an 80KWh pack.

Some companies under report their EPA figures. It's suspected that GM under reports for the Volt and Bolt EV.

From the article linked it's interesting that their thought is that Tesla is under reporting the Model 3 LR to protect the Model S 100D.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
Model 3 is ~75KWh usable in an 80KWh pack.

Some companies under report their EPA figures. It's suspected that GM under reports for the Volt and Bolt EV.

From the article linked it's interesting that their thought is that Tesla is under reporting the Model 3 LR to protect the Model S 100D.
More anti-selling the 3 from Tesla. Geez.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
More anti-selling the 3 from Tesla. Geez.
Or it's the company realizing that the Model 3 is make or break for them with as much money as they have put into the whole thing. Realizing this they don't want 400k new EV owners (many of whom this might be their first EV) not realizing that "range" is highly subjective based on driving habits.

What's better for business:

Scenario A: give the exact battery specs, and range under the most ideal conditions with granny driving, when 80% of the people realize they never get the "advertised" range, outrage ensues and all sorts of nasty articles pop up despite Tesla being 100% truthful about the situation. Same applies with any degradation experienced over the years. In this situation, battery range looks great on paper, but real life experience for most says otherwise.

Scenario B: They include a bit more battery buffer as a safety margin and/or setup the pack and software such that there's enough energy to get the customer to the advertised range no matter how much of a lead foot they have or how much heater use happens. A good portion of the customers then experience a nice bump OVER the advertised range and sing praises. Win/Win.

I can get my Gen2 Volt up to about 60 miles of range even with mostly highway commuting if I'm not a lead foot and take it easy, even if I push it pretty hard I still wind up with 51-53 miles of range right on estimate from the factory sticker. Same with the bolt, many people experience a nice chunk more than 238 miles.


GM *could* have said my car has 60 miles of range easily, but most people won't see that because they drive it like a normal ICE. Under promise, over deliver still has it's place in business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
292 Posts
The problem with talking range is environmental factors have a huge effect. My g2 volt has ranged from 32 miles to 60 miles depending on weather, cabin heating, and speed. It was cold this morning with a head wind, took the bolt twice as much energy to get to work. Not a big deal as it went from 3.5 to 7 kWh.
Personally I would like to see the cars rated at 75 mph speeds and 20 deg since that can be a real world condition for me. Not 70 deg and city driving as I hardly ever drive in those conditions. I have come close to the rated range on the Bolt, but I fear how much it is going to drop now that the weather is getting colder. I expect that my Colorado Springs to Fort Collins and back drive will need an hour+ at a dcfc to be feasible this winter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Musk publically stated at an analysts conference call that the sizes of the Model 3's battery pack were 50 and 75.
The model 3 has a weight of 3500 pounds, while the Model S weighs between 4500 and 5000 pounds. So
one would expect the 75kWhr Model 3 to go as far as the 100kWhr Model S. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time
Musk lied about his cars. Remember the vaporware "$49,000 Model S" ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
I'm not sure that you can legally under report the numbers. It's an official number not a marketing number. I don't think it's permissible to simply change the number for marketing purposes.

Keep in mind that the EPA numbers for efficiency are from the wall not the battery. Measured from the battery the efficiency will be higher. Slight changes might be the result of adjustments for heating or cooling or for equipment that most buyers of a model are expected to have installed in the car. There are many nuances in how the number is arrived at.

As fare as real world driving, people will get different ranges depending on how they drive and the weather. As mentioned by Slotracer577, get your EV in summer and you'll be happily surprised. Get it in winter and not so much. Perhaps in a few months the range will no longer be understated?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,289 Posts
Maybe Tesla underrated the EPA numbers because they know tons of people won't get the FUGLY aero wheels, and will underachieve on range with the 19" wheels or the 18" with the aero covers off. We have a Tesla exec on record stating the aero wheels improve efficiency up to 10%. Maybe with the covers off, the LR 3 only gets 310 miles. As to whether it is legal to underrate official EPA numbers for marketing, that's a good question that needs to be answered.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
260 Posts
Maybe Tesla underrated the EPA numbers because they know tons of people won't get the FUGLY aero wheels, and will underachieve on range with the 19" wheels or the 18" with the aero covers off. We have a Tesla exec on record stating the aero wheels improve efficiency up to 10%. Maybe with the covers off, the LR 3 only gets 310 miles. As to whether it is legal to underrate official EPA numbers for marketing, that's a good question that needs to be answered.
Why do you care you said many times you don't plan on buying one. Is Tesla alive and well living in your head rent free?
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top