[Shivetya]

https://insideevs.com/nissan-reveals-leaf-e-plus-ces/

so anyone want to throw guesstimates at pricing?

I am suspecting it is air cooled, but with new offerings from Hyundai and Kia I cannot see how they expect to ask more than 37k

 

[jcanoe]

https://insideevs.com/nissan-reveals-leaf-e-plus-ces/

so anyone want to throw guesstimates at pricing?

I am suspecting it is air cooled, but with new offerings from Hyundai and Kia I cannot see how they expect to ask more than 37k

The 62kWh battery in the new Nissan Leaf e+ is still air cooled. Clearly this new EV is suited for cooler climates. Someone quipped that there already is a Leaf that is suited for use in Southern California, it is called the Model 3.

 

[Norton]

I am suspecting it is air cooled, but with new offerings from Hyundai and Kia ...

That's the question for me.
Does it have a proper TMS. This is cooling and heating the battery pack as required.
The current Leaf has none. It is not 'air cooled' unless you mean this big pack is surrounded by air on the outside.

I'm still waiting to read what the korean competitors are doing for TMS.
As some of these offerings are only going to CARB states, frankly my dear......

 

[Ladogaboy]

Personally, I think that anyone who is still waiting on a base Model 3 SR should just drop their reservation for the LEAF e+ when it comes out. Functionally, they are extremely similar, and you'd be likely to get much more for your money with the LEAF.

• The acceleration times will be close, and if someone really values RWD, they'd probably want a more powerful version of the Model 3.
• The battery ranges will be similar, though we'd want to verify the LEAF's actual efficiency (the SR would likely be a bit easier to travel with, but again... if that's what you value, you should have bought the MR or LR).
• The charging times will be similar. If Tesla's 2170 cells do in fact have the 2 C charging capabilities that they appear to have, the SR should peak at ~100 kW, just like the LEAF e+, but both vehicles should have a similar ~70 kW average charging speed up to at least 45-55% battery.

The main reason I would avoid both vehicles is their chosen charging standards, though to be fair to the Model 3 SR, the current Supercharger speeds are more than sufficient (it's really just an issue of the gaps in the network). The CHAdeMO standard also has decent coverage, but the LEAF e+ will rarely be able to take full advantage of its faster charging speed. At this point, it's only EVgo and Recargo that are supporting >50 kW CHAdeMO, and that's only at a few sites so far.

That's the question for me.
Does it have a proper TMS. This is cooling and heating the battery pack as required.
The current Leaf has none. It is not 'air cooled' unless you mean this big pack is surrounded by air on the outside.

I'm still waiting to read what the korean competitors are doing for TMS.
As some of these offerings are only going to CARB states, frankly my dear......

On the new LEAF, Nissan decided to cycle air through the AC to cool the battery like they did with the eNV200. As far as I know, it's an almost identical system, and it sounds similar to what Toyota did with the PriusPrime. As far as battery heating, I'm not as familiar. The upcoming Hyundai Kona Electric also lacks a dedicated battery heater, so they are probably in the same boat.

 

[FI Spyder]

The Leaf plus has a big battery but not a corresponding range that we would expect. I suspect this is due to the bigger motor. I'm wondering if you drive it more temperately rather than using it as it is inviting us to, whether that range wouldn't be able to be brought up to snuff. The Outlander uses A/C with ten year battery warranty here. The article I read said the price would be around $30,000 which would put it in range although prices wouldn't be set until near availability of the car. It's all about the competition as new EV's will be coming out fast and furious from now on (relatively speaking) and bearing in mind from concept to production is about 2 to 3 years. It is a marketing decision to announce early to make people wait on their buying decision vs. the down side of letting the buzz die down before it is available vs. tipping your hand to the competition as to specs, production time etc.

 

[scrambler]

The new leaf battery is supposed to use Active Air cooling with fans connected to the Air conditioner.
How better that will be from the current passively air cooled is anybody's guest.

But it is a strange choice given the problems history of the previous generation coming from the lack of proper TMS.

 

[Norton]

Personally, I think that anyone who is still waiting on a base Model 3 SR should just drop their reservation for the LEAF e+ when it comes out. .....

Personally, I think anyone wanting a BEV with some new tech should ask GM to up their game and start offering Super Cruise on the Bolt,,, or whatever new BEV's that are in the works....

Again, TMS sometimes needs to warm the battery pack.

You know,,, not everyone lives in California.....

 

[Off Oil]

It's completely off my list for consideration due to:
1) Failure to migrate to the North American charging standard. Why they are still selling new vehicles in the US using the Japanese standard, is just stupid.
2) Concerns over the lack of a battery TMS, especially given my location.

 

[Steverino]

It's completely off my list for consideration due to:
1) Failure to migrate to the North American charging standard. Why they are still selling new vehicles in the US using the Japanese standard, is just stupid.
2) Concerns over the lack of a battery TMS, especially given my location.

I'm with you. I suspect #1 and #2 are the main reasons the Nissan is a bit cheaper than say a Bolt.

 

[Ladogaboy]

The Leaf plus has a big battery but not a corresponding range that we would expect. I suspect this is due to the bigger motor.

EVs are a bit ironic in the sense that the power of the motor doesn't necessarily correlate to efficiency. The LEAF, with its 110 kW motor, was already less efficient than the Bolt EV and Kona Electric. The lower range is probably due to a number of factors including motor efficiency, gearing, aerodynamics, etc.

Personally, I think anyone wanting a BEV with some new tech should ask GM to up their game and start offering Super Cruise on the Bolt,,, or whatever new BEV's that are in the works....

Again, TMS sometimes needs to warm the battery pack.

You know,,, not everyone lives in California.....

The LEAF, unlike the U.S. release version of the Kona Electric, should have a battery warmer. As far as I know, that's been a standard feature in the LEAF for years.

I do agree that the LEAV e+ will force GM to up their game. Supercruise would be nice, but ACC would be fine with as a budget option. The bigger area where this forces GM to improve is with the battery tech. Given that Nissan is getting their battery cells from LG Chem, GM has no excuse for not improving the batteries in the Bolt EV. A 1.6 C max charging rate in the Bolt EV (96 kW) would be awesome.

It's completely off my list for consideration due to:
1) Failure to migrate to the North American charging standard. Why they are still selling new vehicles in the US using the Japanese standard, is just stupid.
2) Concerns over the lack of a battery TMS, especially given my location.

I think #1 is of far greater concern than #2. Nissan has been using this form of thermal management in the e-NV200 for a while now, and it has been fine.

However, the fact that Nissan is sticking to CHAdeMO for the North American market is unfortunate. It is the key reason to not buy it, in my opinion. The 100 kW charging rate is great, but >50 kW CHAdeMO are few and far between. Also, CCS chargers are being built out at a far faster rate than CHAdeMO at this point, so unless Nissan starts funding their own >50 kW CHAdeMO, the LEAF e+ will always be at a disadvantage to the newer CCS equipped vehicles (even the Bolt EV, which has a max charging rate of 55 kW).

 

[FI Spyder]

CHAdeMO a lot less common than than L2 here. The Outlander addressed this by having CHAdeMO and L2 side by side. Can't be a big deal. Something a Leaf should have addressed.

 

[Jeff N]

CHAdeMO a lot less common than than L2 here. The Outlander addressed this by having CHAdeMO and L2 side by side. Can't be a big deal. Something a Leaf should have addressed.

I’m a little confused by your comment. The LEAF has always had a CHAdeMO and J1772 inlet side by side for DC and level 2 AC charging.

 

[Jeff N]

Given that Nissan is getting their battery cells from LG Chem, GM has no excuse for not improving the batteries in the Bolt EV.

Nope. The cells are not from LG. The battery is being made by Nissan’s in-house battery maker AESC just like previous LEAF models except that the cells have improved energy density and aspects of the pack’s construction has been refined to allow enough cells to fit for a 62 kWh pack.

I wrote about this here:
https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/09...t-lg-is-a-cell-supplier-for-the-leaf-battery/

The thermal management is still a bit unclear. No liquid-cooling. Nissan execs have described the pack management as being passive much like the older LEAFs but there has been some ambiguity as to whether there might be some kind of air-cooling. Hopefully this will be clarified soon.

 

[FI Spyder]

I’m a little confused by your comment. The LEAF has always had a CHAdeMO and J1772 inlet side by side for DC and level 2 AC charging.

My mistake, I wrongly assumed they only had the one. Brain fade, I should know better. A buddy has one.

 

[Ladogaboy]

Nope. The cells are not from LG. The battery is being made by Nissan’s in-house battery maker AESC just like previous LEAF models except that the cells have improved energy density and aspects of the pack’s construction has been refined to allow enough cells to fit for a 62 kWh pack.

I wrote about this here:
https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/09...t-lg-is-a-cell-supplier-for-the-leaf-battery/

The thermal management is still a bit unclear. No liquid-cooling. Nissan execs have described the pack management as being passive much like the older LEAFs but there has been some ambiguity as to whether there might be some kind of air-cooling. Hopefully this will be clarified soon.

Interesting. Thanks for the correction, Jeff.

Too much odd information floating around, but thanks for confirming.

 

[Shivetya]

I do agree that the LEAV e+ will force GM to up their game. Supercruise would be nice, but ACC would be fine with as a budget option. The bigger area where this forces GM to improve is with the battery tech. Given that Nissan is getting their battery cells from LG Chem, GM has no excuse for not improving the batteries in the Bolt EV. A 1.6 C max charging rate in the Bolt EV (96 kW) would be awesome.

You are assuming that GM wants to see more Bolts than it currently does. With the announcement that Cadillac will be the leader for EVs in GM I am thinking the Bolt was nothing more than a compliance car and PR shot at Tesla. That they have to rely on LG says they are not serious yet. Going to Cadillac means they are willing to do EVs if they can price them high enough to have a good profit margin. However past attempts at Cadillac have never impressed anyone in the industry or sold well.

Tesla and Nissan are the obvious companies where the battery development and production is in house/joint. Toyota will go this route, they control nearly all their suppliers anyway. Mitsubishi appears to be the same as well.

 

[Ladogaboy]

You are assuming that GM wants to see more Bolts than it currently does. With the announcement that Cadillac will be the leader for EVs in GM I am thinking the Bolt was nothing more than a compliance car and PR shot at Tesla.

You've been voicing that opinion from the beginning, so I'm thinking this is more of a case of confirmation bias on your part. Any EV built by any automaker is considered by Tesla folk to be a "compliance" car, so I pretty much ignore those spurious claims.

The truth is, GM built the Bolt EV because they could. They have a baseline requirement for a mainstream EV, and the Bolt EV represents that baseline. However, it is profitable in ZEV markets, which is why GM is able to sell it like they do the rest of their line up. Offering discounts here or there and advertising the car specifically in those markets. Now, outside ZEV markets, the Bolt EV is not highly profitable. GM is likely selling the Bolt EV for cost in those markets, which is why they are not prioritizing deliveries and not offering significant discounts in non-ZEV states.

 

[ahaelson2]

I checked the Finnish Nissan site, and even EU Leafs still have CHADEMO charging... A pity.

 

[jcanoe]

The local EVgo public charging stations here in Maryland have been upgraded from 25kW to 50kW charging capability. At the same time as the 50kW upgrade EVgo added a CCS charging cable in addition to the earlier CHAdeM0 charging capability.

 

[Qinsp]

New charging stations going in are 150-350 kW watercooled CCS. I've been to the 350kW one at Baker, check Plugshare for an I-Pace.
CHAdeMO cars are obsolete when sold.

The idea that GM is not serious about EVs is laughable. Outside of maybe Tesla, GM has more engineers on Advanced Propulsion than any other company. And the world's largest battery lab. GM had a 'clean sheet' EV for the public using aluminum aerospace technology and went over 180mph at Bonneville. The world was not ready for it. Tesla years later, put together a kludge called the Roadster which is now virtually orphaned 7 years after production stopped. Today, Tesla struggles with blended brakes, absorbing abuse, cost of repairs, service infrastructure, exaggerating specifications, selling untested or unavailable features, 11 years after they started. Tesla is not guys working in their garage on a limited budget. They were funded to absorb losses for a decade straight, and received direct corporate tax incentives, and even California is kissing their arse. Normally non-union automakers are ran out of the state. Tesla is even set up in a factory that California worked hard to close down (GM/Toyota), but CA subsidized it. It's a Bay Area thing. Hypocrisy or die is the state motto now.

So a pure electric company with same capitalization as General Motors, that can lose money a decade at a time, isn't really ahead of GM from a technical perspective. Super Cruise actually works. So does Cruise. The Bolt exceeded it's EPA range when they threw a handful of keys to journalists and gave them a destination that was out of range. Everybody made it. So you'd THINK Tesla would do the same. Nope. In fact some folk are questioning the 310 mile range, especially on the AWD and P cars. Zealots claim the car gets over 5 miles per kWh in normal freeway driving in the winter. Seriously, they post that. Others are puzzled why they are getting 240 miles of range when driven normally.