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Since Range anxiety is a general issue with most EV non believers, I ran across this practical article which explains many issues surrounding EV charging on the road.
I Took an 800-Mile Road Trip in an Electric SUV to See What All the Fuss Is About (msn.com)

what it does not cover much is the cost relative to gassing up. Its states gassing up for an 800 Mile trip, yet he is in Canada (KMS here) so some confusion here.
As for the cost, I believe that all EV stations charge for time, and not actual power drawn. But in this case it came to $80 (multiple charging events), which is a fraction of what a normal gas trip would cost today. 800 miles = 1287 KMs, multiplied by Ave gas in Canada is 1.60 per lit.= $1900. In my book that's a win, trading off time for money.

The admin can move this to a related Range Anxiety forum, as there were many...I did not know where to place this.

Anyhow, convincing the many nay-sayers on this premise will take time and effort but they will come around eventually as the North American continent converts and adopts to better tech and appropriate infrastructure to support the EV movement. getting rid of the dirty gas engines.
 

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As for the cost, I believe that all EV stations charge for time, and not actual power drawn. But in this case it came to $80 (multiple charging events), which is a fraction of what a normal gas trip would cost today. 800 miles = 1287 KMs, multiplied by Ave gas in Canada is 1.60 per lit.= $1900. In my book that's a win, trading off time for money.
Wrong math!

Assuming the consumption is 5 liters per 100 km (gen2 Volt if you don't WOT it much), 1287 km would take 64.35 liters of gas.

Now, 64.35 liters * $1.60 = $102.96, which is 128.7% of $80, so it's higher, but not a fraction.
 

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Since Range anxiety is a general issue with most EV non believers, I ran across this practical article which explains many issues surrounding EV charging on the road.
I Took an 800-Mile Road Trip in an Electric SUV to See What All the Fuss Is About (msn.com)

what it does not cover much is the cost relative to gassing up. Its states gassing up for an 800 Mile trip, yet he is in Canada (KMS here) so some confusion here.
As for the cost, I believe that all EV stations charge for time, and not actual power drawn. But in this case it came to $80 (multiple charging events), which is a fraction of what a normal gas trip would cost today. 800 miles = 1287 KMs, multiplied by Ave gas in Canada is 1.60 per lit.= $1900. In my book that's a win, trading off time for money.

The admin can move this to a related Range Anxiety forum, as there were many...I did not know where to place this.

Anyhow, convincing the many nay-sayers on this premise will take time and effort but they will come around eventually as the North American continent converts and adopts to better tech and appropriate infrastructure to support the EV movement. getting rid of the dirty gas engines.
Wrong math!

Assuming the consumption is 5 liters per km (gen2 Volt if you don't WOT it much), 1287 km would take 64.35 liters of gas.

Now, 64.35 liters * $1.60 = $102.96, which is 128.7% of $80, so it's higher, but not a fraction.
When compared to a pure ICEV the math in the original post is relatively accurate. Remember, the Volt is a 42 MPG ICEV when running as a classic hybrid while the average fuel economy is something like 32 MPG for ICEVs.
 

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I'm losing hope for those stubborn holdouts. Is enough of them to encourage groupthink and the data is already right there staring them in the face. Not much where you can do. Maybe cash in on some EV incentives offered by the government, to try and convince said holdouts (for your own benefit)
 

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I'm losing hope for those stubborn holdouts. Is enough of them to encourage groupthink and the data is already right there staring them in the face. Not much where you can do. Maybe cash in on some EV incentives offered by the government, to try and convince said holdouts (for your own benefit)
Don't worry about them. They'll shift when they discover they can't fuel their gas and diesel burners because gas stations (generic use here) have replaced their tanks and pumps with batteries and charging systems.
 

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"Range Anxiety" is an obsolete term. It's "Charger Anxiety" now. Shock and surprise, government mandated Dieselgate spending didn't get the job done. Ford and GM at least recognize the DCFC charger problem is going to hold back sales, and are starting to do some small steps towards helping, but I don't have a lot of faith that alone will fix it. More "gen 3" chargers that are meant to take the elements, customer abuse, work during Internet outage, and be repairable by lower skilled technicians is a step in the right direction. But until the big travel plaza companies are willing to put their own money into installing dozens of DCFC dispensers at every one of their locations, I won't call the problem anywhere close to fixed. There's evidence of that starting, but the CCS network still has years of investment to go to catch up to Tesla, let alone surpass it.

I personally don't get the EV drivers complaining about a few cents per kWh higher rates at DCFCs. It takes a ton of infrastructure to generate, deliver, convert that energy on demand, and I don't mind paying gas parity or higher cost for public DCFC to help the economics of it get right side up. We certainly save enough by charging at home, reduced maintenance, etc to offset a few road trips a year costing a bit more.
 

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But until the big travel plaza companies are willing to put their own money into installing dozens of DCFC dispensers at every one of their locations, I won't call the problem anywhere close to fixed.
GM is partnering with Pilot and Flying J truck stops to build 2000 DC fast-chargers along American highways, starting next year.
 
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I personally don't get the EV drivers complaining about a few cents per kWh higher rates at DCFCs.
As far as I can tell a lot of EV drivers have a serious entitlement attitude, or at least the ones who post on social media. They simply do NOT understand the economics of fueling stations and expect to have free charging all the time. Nor do they understand the economics of retrofitting existing parking facilities with sufficient L2 charging to no require DCFC for those who don't own their own homes.
 

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GM is partnering with Pilot and Flying J truck stops to build 2000 DC fast-chargers along American highways, starting next year.
Yes, how much of that project is Pilot / Flying J money, and how much is GM money?

My point is, until the DCFC operator business model is zero GM, Ford, Kia, VW/Dieselgate, government grant, etc. funds, the business model is fundamentally broken.
 

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Range is an actual thing, and so is "range anxiety". It has absolutely nothing to do with "EV non-believers". :rolleyes:
What is an acceptable range for one person will be different from another based on their driving needs. My use case of 25-30k miles a year is very different from the person who drives 7k a year. The person who needs to tow will be very different from those who don't. The effects of cold weather on battery range really doesn't matter to me, however it matters greatly to those in frigid climates. While the battery range available has improved greatly, the number, reliability, and speed of the DC charging stations still makes a gas car/truck better for many. If one normally tows non-aerodynamic things, then an EV just won't work beyond short distances. Ignoring those factors is just ignoring reality.

Good technology and product improvements sells itself.
 

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Yes, how much of that project is Pilot / Flying J money, and how much is GM money?

My point is, until the DCFC operator business model is zero GM, Ford, Kia, VW/Dieselgate, government grant, etc. funds, the business model is fundamentally broken.
GM, EVgo and Pilot all have skin in the game. For Pilot, it's part of a $1 billion investment it calls New Horizons that aims to make the countries largest truck stop chain (500+ locations) more attractive for EV drivers. Pilot won't like out of service charge stations any more than they like out of service pumps.
 

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I have never charged away from home except when it's free, like at Home Depot for 20 minutes or so. I checked out a plugshare site in CA and it was 44¢ per kWh. I believe at that price it's about $5 to drive 42 miles. So equivalent to $5/gal of gas. Not a great bargain, but CA gas prices are still around $5/gal.
 

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I've found the cost of paying for charging in public is similar to the cost of burning gas in an economic vehicle like the Volt or other hybrids. So in our case there's no point in charging in public unless it's free.

For paying for public charging to make sense you would have to drive a fuel inefficient vehicle like a mid size or bigger truck. Or you know, be on a long trip and need the miles for a BEV.
 

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"Range Anxiety" is an obsolete term. It's "Charger Anxiety" now. Shock and surprise, government mandated Dieselgate spending didn't get the job done. Ford and GM at least recognize the DCFC charger problem is going to hold back sales, and are starting to do some small steps towards helping, but I don't have a lot of faith that alone will fix it. More "gen 3" chargers that are meant to take the elements, customer abuse, work during Internet outage, and be repairable by lower skilled technicians is a step in the right direction. But until the big travel plaza companies are willing to put their own money into installing dozens of DCFC dispensers at every one of their locations, I won't call the problem anywhere close to fixed. There's evidence of that starting, but the CCS network still has years of investment to go to catch up to Tesla, let alone surpass it.

I personally don't get the EV drivers complaining about a few cents per kWh higher rates at DCFCs. It takes a ton of infrastructure to generate, deliver, convert that energy on demand, and I don't mind paying gas parity or higher cost for public DCFC to help the economics of it get right side up. We certainly save enough by charging at home, reduced maintenance, etc to offset a few road trips a year costing a bit more.
range is a real issue for people who don’t live in big cities and temperate climates. I used to own a Bolt and a Volt, put almost 130k miles on the pair. Sold both and went back to ice after moving to the Midwest. The Bolt simply didn’t have the range required for my driving. I was down to 2 kwh left one night on a 125 mile trip on a full charge. That simply isn’t enough range to drive to the closest big city and back without charging in all conditions. Cold, bad weather, wind, highway speeds all greatly reduce range. Forget towing. There simply isn’t enough energy in todays batteries to make that work.
I had to tow my Bolt when I moved as it would have taken 2 days if it could have even made the 900 mile trip that I easily did in 14 hrs with my E350 towing the Bolt. Long stretches of highway in cold weather are not conducive to good range.
really wish there was a viable ev replacement for the ice vehicles I bought, but they dont exist yet. If I could get a mid sized 4x4 pickup with 150-200kwh pack for $35k I would go back to an ev today.
 

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Since Range anxiety is a general issue with most EV non believers, I ran across this practical article which explains many issues surrounding EV charging on the road.
I Took an 800-Mile Road Trip in an Electric SUV to See What All the Fuss Is About (msn.com)

what it does not cover much is the cost relative to gassing up. Its states gassing up for an 800 Mile trip, yet he is in Canada (KMS here) so some confusion here.
As for the cost, I believe that all EV stations charge for time, and not actual power drawn. But in this case it came to $80 (multiple charging events), which is a fraction of what a normal gas trip would cost today. 800 miles = 1287 KMs, multiplied by Ave gas in Canada is 1.60 per lit.= $1900. In my book that's a win, trading off time for money.

The admin can move this to a related Range Anxiety forum, as there were many...I did not know where to place this.

Anyhow, convincing the many nay-sayers on this premise will take time and effort but they will come around eventually as the North American continent converts and adopts to better tech and appropriate infrastructure to support the EV movement. getting rid of the dirty gas engines.
I have made several trips now from Orange County, CA (Irvine) to visit my daughter in Monterey CA on the central coast. It's 363 miles, not a long road trip, it does require stopping to charge, and if you want to have some mileage left when you get there, you need to charge twice. Since I'm 86, and have had my 93 year old husband with me, I sometimes stop for the night part way and have found a motel that has a "trickle charger" so if I'm fortunate and it's free, I plug in for the night and have a "full tank" the next morning as long as I'm not on fumes when I stop. I've also found a great DC Fast Charge location at a Forest Service stop in Solvang, and you can walk a half block to a wonderful supermarket similar to Whole Foods, with tables and a huge choice of prepared foods. It has taken some detective work to find the best places to charge and it does add a couple of hours to the trip, but if you can put it together with a meal stop and enjoy restring for an hour rather than rushing, it's a more relaxing way to travel.
 

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range is a real issue for people who don’t live in big cities and temperate climates. I used to own a Bolt and a Volt, put almost 130k miles on the pair. Sold both and went back to ice after moving to the Midwest. The Bolt simply didn’t have the range required for my driving. I was down to 2 kwh left one night on a 125 mile trip on a full charge. That simply isn’t enough range to drive to the closest big city and back without charging in all conditions. Cold, bad weather, wind, highway speeds all greatly reduce range. Forget towing. There simply isn’t enough energy in todays batteries to make that work.
Just remember, though, that's YOU. Fewer than 15% of Americans live places like that. about 85% live "in big cities" or small cities that have a Walmart with a CCS cluster or suburbs where there's a grocery store with at least a free Chargepoint Lvl 2 that's unoccupied 23 hours a day. And most of the people living in rural areas that are making a 125 mile trip in the middle of winter are GOING to someplace like that, that may that charging facility, most of the time that they're traveling. They're not generally going 60 miles from Midnowhere to New Desolation and 60 miles back again. They're going "into town", and probably a Walmart stop is involved.
 

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Just remember, though, that's YOU. Fewer than 15% of Americans live places like that. about 85% live "in big cities" or small cities that have a Walmart with a CCS cluster or suburbs where there's a grocery store with at least a free Chargepoint Lvl 2 that's unoccupied 23 hours a day. And most of the people living in rural areas that are making a 125 mile trip in the middle of winter are GOING to someplace like that, that may that charging facility, most of the time that they're traveling. They're not generally going 60 miles from Midnowhere to New Desolation and 60 miles back again. They're going "into town", and probably a Walmart stop is involved.
This is the type of attitude I see all over Facebook when it comes to range anxiety. The reality is that people generally think of the worst case scenario and until we address these edge cases, even though they aren't common for most drivers, there will be hard pushback from those who deal with these edge cases.
 
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There's "address the edge cases" by provisioning everything so a decade old Leaf can drive from the Imperial Valley to Phoenix, and there's "address the edge cases" by telling 11 out of 12 people "That's not you anyway, stop pretending it is" and telling the 12th person "You got fine reason to keep your liquid-fueled vehicle. Don't whine about what other people do." The right way to do policy is to do what's right for the 80% and figure out how to manage exceptions for the remainder, not "don't do the thing because it doesn't work for EVERYBODY".
 
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