Question For The Technical Group
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If you have to store it without power for the battery pack and the 12V... sell it, and buy another one in four years. You will save money. It will make money selling now, and you'll buy the same car for much less in four years.
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145 Posts
1. Keep the Volt unplugged in an environment under 90 degrees F so the battery doesn't degrade.
2. Fog the gasoline engine with fogging oil to protect the cylinders.
3. Remove the 12 Volt battery.
In 4 years your car will be fine when you put in a charged 12 Volt battery.
2. Fog the gasoline engine with fogging oil to protect the cylinders.
3. Remove the 12 Volt battery.
In 4 years your car will be fine when you put in a charged 12 Volt battery.
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3,684 Posts
^This. And I think the manual says to leave the HV at less than 50% SOC.
Maybe run the tank dry and use Stabil in the gas before running it dry.
TTYL in 4 years! Write if you get work !
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1,238 Posts
Might want to put it on jack stands too and take the wheels off the car and then cover with an auto cover. If it is possible to get someone to drive it periodically for you ( couple times per year ) then you may be able to just park it without much thought. I believe there is a mode you can set it to as well long term storage although i am not sure the sequence to get it into that mode.
I hate to say it, but I'd agree with the Sell It crowd. Unless you are going to risk no insurance, rodent damage, registration hassles, new tires, etc, you sell today, then buy the same year of car 4 years from now with very low miles for less than what you sold your old one for.
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1,318 Posts
Tank should be left full of E0 fuel with sea foam and stabil and ran.
Do NOT put it on jack stands. Park it on something soft/round to keep tires from flat spotting and over fill them by 20psi or so.
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23,692 Posts
Our Long Term Storage Guide http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...y-Charging-amp-Battery-Managment-System-FAQ-s
A common misconception is that the 12v battery will be kept charged as long as the car is plugged in. Like many things about the Volt, the answer is "sometimes".
Plugged In Does Not Always Mean 12v Battery is Being Maintained
Even if the Volt is plugged in, the 12v battery is only charged when the main 360v battery is also actively being charged. This mean that after the main (360v) battery is fully charged, the 12 v battery will NO LONGER be charged even if it starts running down. So simply having your Volt connected to a 120v or 240v charge cord (EVSE) will not prevent the 12v battery from running down when stored for long periods of time.
Parasitic Drain of 12v Battery Even When Plugged In
Basically, when the 12V battery is connected to the car its State of Charge (SOC) will gradually run down if it is not occasionally charged or otherwise maintained. This is because a normal parasitic drain of as much as 25mA occurs even when the car is OFF and completely "asleep". So after 30-40 days this could cause your battery terminal voltage to be too low and require either a "jump" (under the front hood - see owners manual), or a period of charging prior to using the car.
Should You Worry About Storing for a Few Weeks?
No. If your car will be sitting for a few weeks under normal conditions, don't worry. It will be fine. A month or more is another matter, as would be extreme temperature conditions.
Will Cold Weather Damage the Battery or Make it Undriveable?
No, and maybe. Cold temperature will not damage the battery, but long-term storage while unplugged in arctic temperatures could cold-soak the battery to such a point that it would need to be plugged in to warm the battery befor the car could be driven, with or without the ICE. See more in this post later in this thread: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....02#post3670402
FOUR LONG TERM STORAGE METHODS
There are four methods that can be employed when storing the Volt for extended periods longer than a few weeks:
1. Transport Mode. This is used at the factory to put the Volt in a kind of hyper sleep for long shipments overseas. Transport Mode may also be left on while the vehicle is in dealer inventory. So it would seem the same could be done for those who store their Volts for a few months.
2011-2013 Vehicle Procedure
To turn the Transport Mode On:
1. Start the engine
2. Activate the hazard flashers
3. Press the brake pedal
4. Press and hold the Start/Stop button (if equipped) or turn the ignition key to the crank position for 15 seconds"
To turn the Transport Mode Off: Repeat the procedure above.
2. ScottF's "Off Peak" Scheduling Trickle Charge Trick. As discussed above, even if the Volt plugged in, the 12v battery is only charged when the main 360v battery is also actively being charged. Given that ...
While the main battery is being charged, the 12v battery will be topped off too. Because the car takes 10 hours to fully charge using the slow charge cord at 12 amps, you could keep the car and it's 12v battery "trickle charging" like this for 20 weeks of vacation (10 hrs/.5 hrs per week = 20 weeks). At week 20 the main battery will be fully charged and the 12v will no longer be maintained by the main battery charging system. It will be on it's own and slowly drain.
Of course, selecting the 8 amp instead of 12 amp charge rate will drag this out further. The 8 amp level level takes about 14+ hrs. to fully charge the Volt's main battery from empty. So that would give you about 28 weeks (14 hrs/.5 hrs per week = ~28 weeks = ~7 months) of storage before the main battery is completely charged and the 12v battery is on it's own again.
3. Battery Disconnect. This is the method detailed in the Owners Manual. Open the rear cargo hatch. Remove the 12-volt battery black, negative (−) cable from the battery to keep the 12-volt battery from running down.
In addition, to avoid potential damage to the high voltage battery, perform the following recommended steps:
• Store the high voltage battery with 1/2 charge or less.
• Always store the vehicle in an environment between −10°C (14°F) and 30°C (86°F).
• Vehicle storage at extreme temperatures can cause damage to the high voltage battery.
Reconnect the 12-volt battery when ready to drive the vehicle.
4. AGM Trickle Charger. This method is alluded to in the Owners Manual in the battery disconnect method. Use a battery trickle charger intended for use with an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) type battery. From the June 2011 GM Tech Link: "To properly maintain the 12 volt battery while displaying the vehicle, use a battery maintainer, such as the EL-49642 (a Midtronics PSC-550S, about $450 new). The charge voltage should be kept below 14.8 volts due to the Volt having an AGM battery. "
In addition, to avoid potential damage to the high voltage battery, perform the following recommended steps:
• Store the high voltage battery with 1/2 charge or less.
• Always store the vehicle in an environment between −10°C (14°F) and 30°C (86°F).
• Vehicle storage at extreme temperatures can cause damage to the high voltage battery.
What happens if I come back and the 12v battery is dead?
If the car won't respond to your key fob, don't panic. Despite your best attempts (above), the 12v battery has drained down.
Flip out fob's metal key and use it to unlock the door. Pop the front hood. On the (North American) driver's side, toward the steering wheel, locate the gray, bare metal hexagonal ground post. To it's left is a black plastic box with a cover. Pop the cover to expose the thin, threaded positive post. Use these to jump the Volt. To avoid damaging the radio, other electronics, avoid injury/death, or otherwise cause damage not covered under your warranty, read the complete details and cautions in your owners manual under the Jump Starting section.
A common misconception is that the 12v battery will be kept charged as long as the car is plugged in. Like many things about the Volt, the answer is "sometimes".
Plugged In Does Not Always Mean 12v Battery is Being Maintained
Even if the Volt is plugged in, the 12v battery is only charged when the main 360v battery is also actively being charged. This mean that after the main (360v) battery is fully charged, the 12 v battery will NO LONGER be charged even if it starts running down. So simply having your Volt connected to a 120v or 240v charge cord (EVSE) will not prevent the 12v battery from running down when stored for long periods of time.
Parasitic Drain of 12v Battery Even When Plugged In
Basically, when the 12V battery is connected to the car its State of Charge (SOC) will gradually run down if it is not occasionally charged or otherwise maintained. This is because a normal parasitic drain of as much as 25mA occurs even when the car is OFF and completely "asleep". So after 30-40 days this could cause your battery terminal voltage to be too low and require either a "jump" (under the front hood - see owners manual), or a period of charging prior to using the car.
Should You Worry About Storing for a Few Weeks?
No. If your car will be sitting for a few weeks under normal conditions, don't worry. It will be fine. A month or more is another matter, as would be extreme temperature conditions.
Will Cold Weather Damage the Battery or Make it Undriveable?
No, and maybe. Cold temperature will not damage the battery, but long-term storage while unplugged in arctic temperatures could cold-soak the battery to such a point that it would need to be plugged in to warm the battery befor the car could be driven, with or without the ICE. See more in this post later in this thread: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread....02#post3670402
FOUR LONG TERM STORAGE METHODS
There are four methods that can be employed when storing the Volt for extended periods longer than a few weeks:
1. Transport Mode. This is used at the factory to put the Volt in a kind of hyper sleep for long shipments overseas. Transport Mode may also be left on while the vehicle is in dealer inventory. So it would seem the same could be done for those who store their Volts for a few months.
2011-2013 Vehicle Procedure
To turn the Transport Mode On:
1. Start the engine
2. Activate the hazard flashers
3. Press the brake pedal
4. Press and hold the Start/Stop button (if equipped) or turn the ignition key to the crank position for 15 seconds"
To turn the Transport Mode Off: Repeat the procedure above.
2. ScottF's "Off Peak" Scheduling Trickle Charge Trick. As discussed above, even if the Volt plugged in, the 12v battery is only charged when the main 360v battery is also actively being charged. Given that ...
- Run the main battery down. O miles left is best.
- Plug into the "slow" 120v charge cord (supplied with the car).
- Set the Volt's charge scheduler to recognize only Sat and Sun as allowable charge days by telling it to only charge off-peak and set those days as "off peak".
- Set the charge timer to 15 minutes.
While the main battery is being charged, the 12v battery will be topped off too. Because the car takes 10 hours to fully charge using the slow charge cord at 12 amps, you could keep the car and it's 12v battery "trickle charging" like this for 20 weeks of vacation (10 hrs/.5 hrs per week = 20 weeks). At week 20 the main battery will be fully charged and the 12v will no longer be maintained by the main battery charging system. It will be on it's own and slowly drain.
Of course, selecting the 8 amp instead of 12 amp charge rate will drag this out further. The 8 amp level level takes about 14+ hrs. to fully charge the Volt's main battery from empty. So that would give you about 28 weeks (14 hrs/.5 hrs per week = ~28 weeks = ~7 months) of storage before the main battery is completely charged and the 12v battery is on it's own again.
3. Battery Disconnect. This is the method detailed in the Owners Manual. Open the rear cargo hatch. Remove the 12-volt battery black, negative (−) cable from the battery to keep the 12-volt battery from running down.
In addition, to avoid potential damage to the high voltage battery, perform the following recommended steps:
• Store the high voltage battery with 1/2 charge or less.
• Always store the vehicle in an environment between −10°C (14°F) and 30°C (86°F).
• Vehicle storage at extreme temperatures can cause damage to the high voltage battery.
Reconnect the 12-volt battery when ready to drive the vehicle.
4. AGM Trickle Charger. This method is alluded to in the Owners Manual in the battery disconnect method. Use a battery trickle charger intended for use with an AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) type battery. From the June 2011 GM Tech Link: "To properly maintain the 12 volt battery while displaying the vehicle, use a battery maintainer, such as the EL-49642 (a Midtronics PSC-550S, about $450 new). The charge voltage should be kept below 14.8 volts due to the Volt having an AGM battery. "
In addition, to avoid potential damage to the high voltage battery, perform the following recommended steps:
• Store the high voltage battery with 1/2 charge or less.
• Always store the vehicle in an environment between −10°C (14°F) and 30°C (86°F).
• Vehicle storage at extreme temperatures can cause damage to the high voltage battery.
What happens if I come back and the 12v battery is dead?
If the car won't respond to your key fob, don't panic. Despite your best attempts (above), the 12v battery has drained down.
Flip out fob's metal key and use it to unlock the door. Pop the front hood. On the (North American) driver's side, toward the steering wheel, locate the gray, bare metal hexagonal ground post. To it's left is a black plastic box with a cover. Pop the cover to expose the thin, threaded positive post. Use these to jump the Volt. To avoid damaging the radio, other electronics, avoid injury/death, or otherwise cause damage not covered under your warranty, read the complete details and cautions in your owners manual under the Jump Starting section.
Lithium batteries don't leak current like NiMH, they should last 10 to 20 years if left with a low charge. Removing the 12V should prevent any current leaking, and the HV is disconnected until the 12 V brings it online so I don't believe there is a problem here. There will be permanent capacity loss, but if stored per manual (discharge to around 40 percent) with battery disconnected in a cool place it should be minimized.
I would worry more about rodents, which will destroy it if they get in there.
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9,953 Posts
I don't have a Volt but I do work with Lithium cells and they do hold up for long term. As an example, I found one device after over five years of unuse and it has a small "pouch" type cell. It had 3.3 VDC on it, it recharged to 4.3 VDC, and is useable. So the Volt's HV battery can handle those four years with no damage. The 12 VDC battery must be removed.
But the other recommendations depends if you want to keep the same Volt or sell it and buy a new one later, which is what I would do, too.
But the other recommendations depends if you want to keep the same Volt or sell it and buy a new one later, which is what I would do, too.
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13,358 Posts
I agree with the Sell it crowd - this coming from a guy who never sells his cars. In 4 years, the choices should be different. Put the cash into an account, don't touch it other than to add to it regularly, and when you come back, maybe you'll have enough for a supercar.
But if you really love your car and don't want to part with it, give it to a trusted friend or relative who can drive it once or twice a week to keep the electrons and fluids flowing.
But if you really love your car and don't want to part with it, give it to a trusted friend or relative who can drive it once or twice a week to keep the electrons and fluids flowing.
I would also lean towards sale unless you have someone that can keep it up occasionally as ninja says. Lithium batteries can lose up to around 5% of their charge per month due to self-discharge, regardless of whether there is a load on them or not.
A year storage? Sure. I think 4 years without behind touched is pushing it. I have heard of a Tesla owner who left their car untouched for a long period and came back to a dead battery pack. Tesla didn't replace under warranty because it was considered neglect.
If you decide to store, make sure it can stay cool (not in an unconditioned outside storage unit in Florida), as high temp storage will destroy the battery (ref. Nissan Leaf). Not to mention, this will take a huge chunk out of your battery warranty period which might leave you high and dry if you come back to a damaged/bad battery.
A year storage? Sure. I think 4 years without behind touched is pushing it. I have heard of a Tesla owner who left their car untouched for a long period and came back to a dead battery pack. Tesla didn't replace under warranty because it was considered neglect.
If you decide to store, make sure it can stay cool (not in an unconditioned outside storage unit in Florida), as high temp storage will destroy the battery (ref. Nissan Leaf). Not to mention, this will take a huge chunk out of your battery warranty period which might leave you high and dry if you come back to a damaged/bad battery.
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3,684 Posts
This is incorrect. As stated Li-ion batteries do not have 'Self Discharge'.
Look this up. It's easy.
They do have 'Shelf Life' . But that's a different subject.
Tesla's are different beasts. They use power from the HV battery to keep the computers booted up. And they probably have some long term storage procedure that can be used.
The Volt's HV battery is just sitting there not doing a thing when the car is not booted up.
Hi Norton, always good to provide you with evidence to the contrary...
Please reference: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/elevating_self_discharge&ved=0ahUKEwjMj9HOlLbSAhUI4SYKHTcQDMsQFggmMAI&usg=AFQjCNGzQsnlojmycy5MA7F3pdnrbydDdg&sig2=M7A1drsCZeIiaSHZGM4gUw
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.batteryeducation.com/2012/10/battery-self-discharge-rates.html&ved=0ahUKEwjMj9HOlLbSAhUI4SYKHTcQDMsQFgiSATAT&usg=AFQjCNGIe53ZA51sprdjktBgv2CNUAPsZA&sig2=05uXqCk38bs3nrIG2xYRCQ
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cswang.umd.edu/publications/papers/35.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjMj9HOlLbSAhUI4SYKHTcQDMsQFgilATAV&usg=AFQjCNFt4FAAgK4ViEd-ZUtZ1VY1XGKnOQ&sig2=yEe2zU8d0itSgOB6Bg4YHg
These are from the first page of results using Google Search.
@ Qinsp, secondary lithium batteries discharge in a non-linear fashion, which is why SOC is hard to determine from voltage. Just because voltage is nearly the same, especially with a degree of certainty in the tenths of a volt, doesn't mean the SOC is the same.
Thanks so much to all for the imput. Alot to consider for sure. Sadly not a great resale market here in NY, especially w/ the lack of emissions pkg(for HOV) and the coming of the Bolt, etc. I now move to ponder mode but certainly can make a much more intelligent decision... so.. THANKS FORUM PEOPLE!
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105 Posts
You are still probably better of selling the car now. In four years, barring gasoline jumping to outrageous prices, the car will be worth even less.
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