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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi all,

I have a Juicebox with the Juicenet Green software option. For those who don't know what Juicenet Green does, here's a quick description:

"JuiceNet Green is a cloud software feature that monitors and reacts to the instantaneous energy market in your geo-locality, and tapers or holds off your charging based on how 'dirty' the energy mix is in your area at that particular time."

So tonight my 2018 Volt was set to Charge Immediately and the Juicebox set to Charge by 7am. The car was happily charging along when the Juicebox suspended charging because it realized the energy mix from the grid was too dirty and wanted the car to wait until the grid was cleaner. This could be anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours of waiting depending on the grid from what I understand.

I really love the idea of pulling the greenest power from the grid but here's the problem I see based on my experience:

When the charger suspends providing power to the car because the grid is dirty, it doesn't care if the car needs to pull power to run the TMS. Once the charger starts waiting for greener power from the grid, I get an Onstar "your charge has been suspended" message.

I'm concerned about the health of the battery if the car asks the charger to run the TMS but the charger says "No, the grid is not clean enough to provide power right now". The temp in the garage was 87 degrees so I'm guessing the car didn't need to cool the batteries but there's really no way to tell.


Am I making too much of this or should I be concerned about a delay in running TMS?
 

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If you normally charge during off-peak periods, i.e. after 9PM, then the ambient temperature will be lower than in the middle of the afternoon when peak temperatures may require the Volt to use the fan and AC to cool the battery. In my experience the ambient temperature has to be quite warm, above 95F or even 98F before the TMS will cool the battery when the Volt is plugged in. Charging may cause the TMS to cool the battery, I have observed the fan running immediately after charging has been completed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks jcanoe! The fact that the fan runs immediately after charging is exactly what I'm concerned about. Let's say the car is charging off peak for a couple of hours and then the charger cuts off due to the grid being dirty. The charger will just shut down and not provide power for the car to run the fan. When the charger cuts power, the car basically thinks it's unplugged so battery cooling will not happen quite possibly when it needs it the most after a long charging session.

There is an option to override the green software functionality and I'm beginning to think I should only use Juicenet Green when I am certain that the batteries will not need to be cooled or heated. I think I saw a chart in one of the threads about temp ranges and when the TMS is active. I suppose I could go by that but I wish there was a way the charger could know the difference between a request from the car to charge the battery vs a request to cool the battery. According to EMW tech support there is no way for the charger to tell the difference.
 

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If your grid is dirty, just get a cloth and wipe the dirt off the cables. My service is underground so it is never dirty.
 

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Thanks jcanoe! The fact that the fan runs immediately after charging is exactly what I'm concerned about. Let's say the car is charging off peak for a couple of hours and then the charger cuts off due to the grid being dirty. The charger will just shut down and not provide power for the car to run the fan. When the charger cuts power, the car basically thinks it's unplugged so battery cooling will not happen quite possibly when it needs it the most after a long charging session.
It will cool the battery DURING the charging session too. And there's plenty of margin between "I need cooling" and potential harm so the interruption won't hurt anything, other than that you're no longer getting a wall charge.

There is an option to override the green software functionality and I'm beginning to think I should only use Juicenet Green when I am certain that the batteries will not need to be cooled or heated. I think I saw a chart in one of the threads about temp ranges and when the TMS is active. I suppose I could go by that but I wish there was a way the charger could know the difference between a request from the car to charge the battery vs a request to cool the battery. According to EMW tech support there is no way for the charger to tell the difference.
Just turn it off and don't worry about it. TMS is probably going to come on during the charge cycle anyway, because pumping 3kw into a battery is going to generate some heat no matter what, and the pack is too buried in the car to rely on ambient cooling to keep it in a comfortable range. Setting a delayed charge timer instead will very likely do a better job of collecting "green power" incidentally than the softwaregizmo does by trying to measure it in the first place.
 

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Maybe let the car do it's thing and use the clean/dirty system to control the rest of your house instead? You could have the rest of your house/electrical needs interrupted rather than the car's. That's where most of your electrical use is anyway. The car is small cheese, target your major use instead.
 

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Maybe let the car do it's thing and use the clean/dirty system to control the rest of your house instead? You could have the rest of your house/electrical needs interrupted rather than the car's. That's where most of your electrical use is anyway. The car is small cheese, target your major use instead.
Good point. Don't worry about saving the bread crumbs on the floor when the loaf on the table is going moldy.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It will cool the battery DURING the charging session too. And there's plenty of margin between "I need cooling" and potential harm so the interruption won't hurt anything, other than that you're no longer getting a wall charge.



Just turn it off and don't worry about it. TMS is probably going to come on during the charge cycle anyway, because pumping 3kw into a battery is going to generate some heat no matter what, and the pack is too buried in the car to rely on ambient cooling to keep it in a comfortable range. Setting a delayed charge timer instead will very likely do a better job of collecting "green power" incidentally than the softwaregizmo does by trying to measure it in the first place.
Thanks everyone for all the great responses and the forum info. For anyone interested, Juicenet Green behavior is dictated through data from Watt Time, which monitors the grid. No idea yet whether it's any better at minimizing CO2 than just charging overnight in my area of the country. It would be great to be able monitor the CO2 emissions for a Juicenet Green managed charge vs. a simple deferred overnight charge. Wonder if EMW will ever be able to show that data?

Anyway, here's a pretty cool link that shows the US electrical grid in real time and what type of fuel is used to create electricity:

explorer.watttime.com

I am going to shut off Juicenet Green and use overnight deferred charging on the car for a little while. Tons of great information on the forum for me to digest about the TMS behavior plus I think I need to get a hands on understanding for how the EVSE is behaving overnight through the relationship of temperature, TMS cycles (if any) as well as charging itself.

Here's a link to a Juicenet Green white paper on the EMW website in case anyone's interested.

https://support.emotorwerks.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001517912-How-does-JuiceNet-Green-work-to-reduce-emissions-

Thanks again! Really appreciate all the fantastic responses and information from everyone!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Maybe let the car do it's thing and use the clean/dirty system to control the rest of your house instead? You could have the rest of your house/electrical needs interrupted rather than the car's. That's where most of your electrical use is anyway. The car is small cheese, target your major use instead.
Great thought but as I understand it, the software they use can only control the EVSE itself, not any of the other circuits on my panel.
 

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I do not recall but does the real car charger (inside on the right ) not have its own fan and is not part of the electronics water cooling loop ?

and some background info on only needing to control the pilot wire of the SAE J1772


P1901 powerline communication
In an updated standard due in 2012, SAE proposes to use power line communication, specifically IEEE 1901, between the vehicle, off-board charging station, and the smart grid, without requiring an additional pin; SAE and the IEEE Standards Association are sharing their draft standards related to the smart grid and vehicle electrification.[24]

P1901 communication is compatible with other 802.x standards via the IEEE 1905 standard, allowing arbitrary IP-based communications with the vehicle, meter or distributor, and the building where chargers are located. P1905 includes wireless communications.

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In at least one implementation, communication between the off-board DC EVSE and PEV occurs on the pilot wire of the SAE J1772 connector via HomePlug Green PHY power line communication (PLC


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as to clean power ; I suggest we color the electrons to make it easy to detect where they came from as they move over the wires :)
Brown - oil or gas
Black -coal
Blue-wind
Yellow - Solar
Light brown- Hydro
Ultra Violet- atomic fusion

( yes I know it is AC- and we have to use and PAY for the SAME electrons over and over again. )
 

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