GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I was perusing this site

Electric Fueling Stations in California
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ind_state.php/CA/ELEC

looking for J class charging stations for my VOLT and found VERY few available. Hundreds of old style inductive stations are available and sitting idle/mothballed.

I contacted a So. Cal. Edison representative and asked if SCE was going to retrofit the public stations...like at the local mall and the county run public parking lot in my city. His response was no, but there are government funds available for private entities to do so.

I also contacted a GM representative who filled me in on why SCE can't get involved with this process. Bascially the California Public Utility Commission does not allow investor-owned utilities to own and operate EVSEs - they can only deliver electrons. I learned that the upgrades of the older systems will be the responsibility of the owner, which is likely the host. So either the host will be motivated to retrofit or partner with the Chargepoint (Coulomb) or Blink (Ecotality) folks to work with the host to do this upgrade privately.

Then I found this page on the site:
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/afdc/progs/ind_state_laws.php/CA/ELEC
that has all the programs and points of contact in CA that should get this massive retrofit program going. After all, retrofitting previously installed infrastructure is cost and time effective in re-establishing a network of public charging stations. This approach would be more valuable to most drivers than installing new EVSE facilities on Interstate 5 from Washington to California.

Hopefully the private EVSE industry will take advantage of these opportunities quickly.

I encourage any Volt owners in CA to check out these sites, and contact the relevant parties to encourage and cajole the stakeholders begin the retrofit process!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
In general, all plug in car owners are going to need to ban together to petition and lobby for charging infrastructure. Isn't that something Chelsea Sexon's group should be doing? As a plug in owner for 6 months, I haven't heard a peep from that group in terms of banning owners together to get things done. If that's what they do, they need to get on the ball and quit spending time talking about the EV1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
857 Posts
Entertaining observation, voltage692.
Here's another site to find charger locations:
http://www.evchargernews.com/
For a list of charging station databases, please see the following posting:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?6047-Public-Charging-Station-Experiences&p=54449#post54449

That link, and links to many other useful posts about the Volt, can be found by clicking on the "ChrisC FAQ" link in my signature.

WVhybrid

ps. If you find a thread you think should be added to FAQ, drop ChrisC a PM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
In general, all plug in car owners are going to need to ban together to petition and lobby for charging infrastructure. Isn't that something Chelsea Sexon's group should be doing? As a plug in owner for 6 months, I haven't heard a peep from that group in terms of banning owners together to get things done. If that's what they do, they need to get on the ball and quit spending time talking about the EV1.
I receive regular communication from Plug In America and see several campaigns. Perhaps if you want to get involved you should actually take some action yourself? It's not clear why you expect them to contact you: I certainly wouldn't expect a third party to have access to my contact details without my permission. I strongly suspect that in other circumstances if you were bombarded by invitations from other organisations or companies you would be wailing about privacy rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
I expect to see them active on sites like this forum.

I receive regular communication from Plug In America and see several campaigns. Perhaps if you want to get involved you should actually take some action yourself? It's not clear why you expect them to contact you: I certainly wouldn't expect a third party to have access to my contact details without my permission. I strongly suspect that in other circumstances if you were bombarded by invitations from other organisations or companies you would be wailing about privacy rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
I expect to see them active on sites like this forum.
Waaa. Waaaaah! How ironic; a Texan who wants to be spoon fed by charities. How about getting off your virtual backside and putting in some effort yourself? If this is an important issue to you, do something about it, don't complain that no-one has contacted you about it.


I don't want anything beyond a perhaps an occasional heads-up about an item of interest from someone who is a forum member. There are too many companies and other organisations astroturfing social sites; this is a forum for the Volt. I wouldn't want every special-interest group whose interests intersect with ours actively pushing their agenda here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,384 Posts
sgc,

I agree that this would be much more useful than stations along I-5. Every time I see one of these old stations with the paddle, I just have to shake my head. I am going to LAX this PM. According to the web search I did, the 240v stations there still have the paddles. Can anyone confirm that? They supposedly do have one 120v J1772 setup. Whoop-de-doo! Can you believe it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,499 Posts
It's a business -- they want money from members and they sell their electric car movies.

If they really want to push electric cars, the auto companies are already doing their part to make them, the government is doing their part for incentives to buy them and install chargers, and consumers are doing their part to buy them.

An org like the Plug In need to exert the influence of the current and future car owners to give businesses that nudge they need to install the charging infrastructure by getting visibility for the electric car owners. Otherwise, that group is pretty much useless.

I have a Volt, so I don't need the charging infrastructure. I am just commenting on how they are missing the boat. That's my right as a Texan ;)



Waaa. Waaaaah! How ironic; a Texan who wants to be spoon fed by charities. How about getting off your virtual backside and putting in some effort yourself? If this is an important issue to you, do something about it, don't complain that no-one has contacted you about it.


I don't want anything beyond a perhaps an occasional heads-up about an item of interest from someone who is a forum member. There are too many companies and other organisations astroturfing social sites; this is a forum for the Volt. I wouldn't want every special-interest group whose interests intersect with ours actively pushing their agenda here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
It's a business
No, it's a charity.

An org like the Plug In need to exert the influence of the current and future car owners to give businesses that nudge they need to install the charging infrastructure by getting visibility for the electric car owners. Otherwise, that group is pretty much useless.
And that's what they're apparently doing. They don't need to post here every day to do that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
There is a plan to get the induction paddles upgraded to new J1772 connectors (in CA at least) and it will be done by EV Connect:

"EV Connect Press Room

Energy Commission Awards $1.9 Million for Improving California's Electric Vehicle Infrastructure HUNTINGTON BEACH, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--EV Connect, a leading provider of electric vehicle infrastructure solutions (EVISs), today announced that the California Energy Commission has chosen EV Connect, along with ClipperCreek and Tom Dowling, to upgrade the existing EV infrastructure throughout the state of California. As implementation partner for the $1.9 million project, EV Connect will upgrade legacy chargers throughout California, providing adaptations to accommodate existing electric vehicles, while updating charger stations to the new SAE-J1772 standard of new car models.

"By upgrading existing electric vehicle charger stations across the state, California continues its leadership in promoting alternative fuel and plug-in vehicle technology," said Energy Commissioner Anthony Eggert. "This investment will help prepare California for a clean, energy efficient future and advance the state's transportation infrastructure."

"We appreciate the CEC's confidence in EV Connect to bring California's legacy EV infrastructure up to speed with existing technologies and standards, further validating our leadership as a provider of best-of-breed EV infrastructure solutions," said Jordan Ramer, CEO of EV Connect. "We are excited to work with ClipperCreek and Tom Dowling on this initiative. This is an important step forward in realizing EV Connect's vision of an Electric Superhighway where a seamless EV infrastructure intersects with the Information Highway and Smart Grid."

In anticipation of new car models entering the market from companies such as Nissan, Coda Automotive, General Motors, Ford and Fisker Automotive, among others, work is slated to start in the fall of 2010 and finish by winter of 2011.

"We felt we made a solid offer to the State considering many of the existing units were ones we installed in the 90s," said Jason France, CEO of ClipperCreek. "This opportunity allows us to update California's EV infrastructure with the new standards that accommodate all new EVs coming to market."

About EV Connect, Inc.

EV Connect, an EV industry veteran and visionary, delivers best of breed electric vehicle infrastructure solutions (EVISs), applying its deep expertise to help OEMs design, engineer, install and maintain EV infrastructures. EV Connect is working to unify charging technologies in order to build a seamless Electric Superhighway. Based in Huntington Beach, California, EV Connect is driving EV adoption forward for commercial customers and EV industry partners alike. For more information please visit http://www.evconnect.com.

About ClipperCreek, Inc.

ClipperCreek brings product leadership to the electric vehicle charging infrastructure marketplace with reliable, safe and flexible, software-driven products that have been proven through 10 years of development and field experience. ClipperCreek is the exclusive provider of EVSE chargers for BMW's Mini-E and for Tesla Motors' Level 2 EVSE charging stations. ClipperCreek also provides chargers to power Mercedes, GM and Nissan vehicles. Visit www.ClipperCreek.com for more information."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,632 Posts
As to carpet bombing the forum with ads for various, well... anythings... I don't speak for the current administration of the forum (my powers as moderator begin and end at spam deletion), but my impression is that any entity that decided the forum looked like a great advertising avenue would be encouraged to actually buy ad space here.

I'm sure y'all have noticed the highly helpful advertisements that pop up whilst you traverse the forum (and help explain why I often read with javascript disabled :- ). I'm sure the site administrators would like more sources of those.

I'll grant there a couple users who push my buttons on the envelope of using the forum to advertise, but so far they seem to have community support for doing so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
On a somewhat related note, the California legislature passed AB475. I think this was intended to fix the problem that extended range vehicles and plug-in hybrids would not have been allowed to use public charging facilities reserved for pure electrics. But as written it would prohibit plug sharing, effectively cutting available charging resources by 1/2 or 1/4, and discourage businesses from installing charging facilities since they would be effectively 2x or 4x as expensive. It would also encourage fraud: any ICE driver could take a charging spot by running an extension cord out the trunk.

As a Nissan Leaf driver I think of course Volts should have the same access to charging stations as any other plug-in cars, as this will mean more charging stations for all of us. But the way to do this is simply to issue EV parking stickers to Volt drivers. Many of us over on the other forum are urging Gov. Brown to veto the flawed bill and get the next one right. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5288
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I just found out that AB475 which would cripple the emerging public charging infrastructure was sponsored by none other than GM. http://www.plugincars.com/gm-sponsors-bill-creates-problems-electric-car-charging-107641.html

Volt and Leaf are great cars! Which one is better depends on individual driving needs. GM harmed customers of both by pushing this bad bill. However if this bill cripples the public charging infrastructure then the Volt will be a better fit for more people, worth a few thousand dollars more to carry around your own recharging station. It sure looks like that was their intent. After all, no company in the world had more EV experience than GM: they could not have been unaware of the problems with the bill.

I wish GM would realize they could sell a lot more Volts if they instead worked to IMPROVE the public charging infrastructure. A slightly smaller portion of a much bigger pie is much bigger profits. There will always be plenty of cities and households where a Volt is a much better choice. E.g. single car household, long commute, rural, exurbs, etc. Stop trying to kill the electric car charger, GM!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
I wish GM would realize they could sell a lot more Volts if they instead worked to IMPROVE the public charging infrastructure. A slightly smaller portion of a much bigger pie is much bigger profits. There will always be plenty of cities and households where a Volt is a much better choice. E.g. single car household, long commute, rural, exurbs, etc. Stop trying to kill the electric car charger, GM!
You have a point of view. Let me explain why it's misguided.

Right now we have a kludgy, stupid, inefficient, and wasteful sticker process that is the poster child for useless government programs. The bill you think "would kill EV charge stations" gets rid of this and replaces it with a simple, universal, and easily administered system that says if you are plugged in then you're OK.

Here's an example of why the new way is better. You drive from Arizona to San Diego for vacation in your Volt and go to Balboa Park. When you get there you see a public charger. Under your system you can't use it because you don't have a sticker. Under the new plan you can plug right in. So you tell me, why do you think your plan encourages public charging more?

Now I realize that Leafs aren't going to be coming from AZ to CA, but I don't see a reason to design a system around the limitations of a particular EV model at a given point in time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I agree the old EV1-era law needs to be updated. Actually even if the Balboa Park stations were signed for the state law I could charge there because I do have an EV parking sticker - for my Leaf. What is wrong today is that you do not have an EV parking sticker. The simplest update to the law would be to say if your car has a plug you get a parking sticker. Better yet they could instead issue a license plate decal using the existing process to distribute the year decals. They could add a road use fee for the decal to offset the gas tax we aren't paying for road upkeep.

Under AB475 you could drive to Balboa Park, plug in, and go to a museum. An hour or two later your charge is done. I arrive, park next to you, unplug your car and plug mine in. Then parking enforcement comes and your car is towed away because it's not plugged in. The Hummer occupying the charging spot next to it isn't towed or ticketed however because he has an extension cord running to a 12V battery tender.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,156 Posts
I agree the old EV1-era law needs to be updated. Actually even if the Balboa Park stations were signed for the state law I could charge there because I do have an EV parking sticker - for my Leaf. What is wrong today is that you do not have an EV parking sticker. The simplest update to the law would be to say if your car has a plug you get a parking sticker. Better yet they could instead issue a license plate decal using the existing process to distribute the year decals. They could add a road use fee for the decal to offset the gas tax we aren't paying for road upkeep.

Under AB475 you could drive to Balboa Park, plug in, and go to a museum. An hour or two later your charge is done. I arrive, park next to you, unplug your car and plug mine in. Then parking enforcement comes and your car is towed away because it's not plugged in. The Hummer occupying the charging spot next to it isn't towed or ticketed however because he has an extension cord running to a 12V battery tender.
Stickers are a PITA. Get rid of them. One charger per EV spot and we have one less useless government program and all is fixed.

Here is why you need one charger per spot and why sharing chargers isn't desirable. First, for security purposes, if you unplug the Volt it sets off the security alarm and I get sent an email alert. I'd have to leave the museum so see what was afoot. Now the reason the Volt doesn't like being unplugged, is that, unlike your Leaf, the Volt doesn't charge and then shut down. It has a thermal management system that constantly uses plug in power to keep the battery at the desired temperature and/or to precondition the car. That's why your Leaf essentially goes dead after a charge but the Volt shows a blinking green light -- it's blinking because it may still be using grid power even after the battery has been charged. This leads to the second reason why I don't want you to pull the plug on my Volt: on a day like today you'd be degrading my battery. If you get the charger first I'm OK with that. But if I get there first and I'm conditioning my battery I don't want you messing with the process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,632 Posts
This leads to the second reason why I don't want you to pull the plug on my Volt: on a day like today you'd be degrading my battery.
My understanding is this statement is patently false. A Volt battery should not degrade significantly just because it's not plugged in on a hot day (unless you define "degrade" as "loses SOC").

I believe if the Volt is unplugged on a hot day it will run the TMS as needed to maintain a safe temperature, reducing the SOC over time to do it until the battery's state no longer requires cooling (below a certain SOC (I've heard 50% and 75%) the battery no longer degrades in heat).

So while I agree a Volt should always be plugged in on a hot day if possible (to allow the TMS to run off network power) it won't degrade the battery if it's not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
My understanding is this statement is patently false. A Volt battery should not degrade significantly just because it's not plugged in on a hot day (unless you define "degrade" as "loses SOC").
I can't believe that GM would design the Volt such that the battery could be harmed by parking it without plugging in, and I'd be surprised if it even lost a great amount of charge. People on mynissanleaf.com report parking their cars at the airport for a couple of weeks and coming back to find the battery with exactly the same amount of charge as when they left. I'd expect the Volt would be the same - plus having the gasoline in reserve as well.

However, the idea of using plug power to run the battery thermal conditioning, for whatever reason, is something I hadn't thought of. And I'd guess that most Leaf drivers wouldn't think of it, and I will post about the issue over there. Thanks to DonC for cluing me in. It's one more reason to add to why a plug-in driver (Leaf or Volt) ought never unplug another car (Leaf or Volt) without permission. No type of car should automatically get preference at the charging plugs. It must be up to the driver and nobody else to say how much charge he needs versus how much he would like. The government should neither mandate sharing, nor outlaw sharing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,165 Posts
Li-Ion Temperature Breakdown. How long does TMS keep it cool before dropping to 50%S

GM had a tough choice.. run the TMS and drain the battery for an unknown length of time, or let the battery sit and deal with the heat. From what I've read (and some other treads say something similar, e.g. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?8164-Battery-in-Hot-Parking-Lot) The TMS will only condition the battery down to 50 SOC%. What I've not seen is how long a fully charge will keep the TMS going? Anyone know? It does has insulation so that could be a long time.


@Rusty, Li-ion system have an inherent chemical nature for which high temperature can cause permanent breakdown. E.g. from Li-Ion (for RC vehicles) heat has a permanent damage. At least for some of the ones I use its best not to store fully charged, e.g. see http://www.powerstream.com/Storage.htm
Note: Test data confirms that storage of lithium-ion batteries is best if the cell is partially discharged. In one test by Cadex Electronics ( http://www.buchmann.ca ) after 1 year storage at 25°C the non-recoverable capacity remaining is 96% when stored at 40% initial charge level, but only 80% if stored with 100% initial charge level. This effect is reduced at lower temperature and is a non-issue at 0°C. At higher temperatures the effect is much worse. Cadex's recommendations are to store below 15° C at 40% of full charge (3.5 volts per cell).
There are of course lots of variations in Li-ion chemistry so hopefully the LG mix for the volt is a bit more stable. But from my reading the volt ideal temperature range is pretty narrow so curious if anyone has data on its breakdown temperature. At least with the TMS burning it down to 50% SOC don't have to worry about storing it full.. it will cool its self long enough so that's not an issue. But after some period it can get above its storage temperature.

_____________________________
BoultVolt Red 2011 picked up in Tx, Aug 2011.
300miles pure EV and counting up.
51.1miles Best Single Charge EV Range
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top