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There is nothing inherently wrong with using customers as beta testers for your car. While GM and others use mule cars, pre-production, etc... Tesla opts to just sell the cars to consumers and refine over time.

What is wrong however is to charge full price (or more) for the privilege of driving a car that may not be quite ready for prime time. Think about it this way - when a product is funded on kickstarter or gofundme, the early backers and adopters often get the initial product releases at a reduced cost. The reason for this is first - a thank you for being a backer, and second - because later versions are often more refined.
 

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Yes and no. They do the captured fleet part of initial builds to shake out issues. Tesla skipped that and sold their "35k" car @ 50K to people and when there are complaints then it's "ya, we're building better ones now" :rolleyes:

Scott, I'm afraid that you're heading down the road to becoming the john1701a of Tesla on this site. Not really something to strive for....
Well, I've been following here since early/mid 2010 (join later) and there were a lot of dedicated and technical *EV fans. Look at my 100s hours of past post on this forum and others promoting the GM Volt during all the press (fires, add braces for side impact, crazy news stories, etc). I couldn't believe it back then. Now many here are doing the EXACT same to Tesla.

I'm completely surprised that many post are so negative and vicious against the company that has done as much for the EV movement as Tesla has done. Everyone loves to jump on everything that pops up. When things get fixed are good everyone goes silent on that, tho.

Obviously, my family owns 3 Volts so I'm a fan of them. After so many years, they are starting to show some flaws like 'normal battery wear' (degradation), replacement of voltec components (I've had two big ones). We should be honest about the good and bad.

There are quite a few long long time Volt owners that also own Teslas and recent Model 3 owners. Are you many here trying to alienate them intentionally.

And everyone loves to ignore that without Tesla there is no EREV/PHEV Volt and therefore no GM-Volt.COM forum which, of course, is not GM affiliated and not an official sales site for GM. GM-Volt.COM is just one of literally hundreds of forums owned by the company running it. https://www.verticalscope.com/automotive/site-list.html

See and listen with your own ears. Thread: Lyle's interview with Bob Lutz - awesome...
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread...w-with-Bob-Lutz-awesome&p=4513618#post4513618
 

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Well, I've been following here since early/mid 2010 (join later) and there were a lot of dedicated and technical *EV fans. Look at my past post on this forum and others promoting the GM Volt during all the press (fires, add braces for side impact, crazy news stories, etc). I couldn't believe it back then. Now many here are doing the EXACT same to Tesla.

I'm completely surprised that many post are so negative and vicious against the company that has done as much for the EV movement as Tesla has done. Everyone loves to jump on everything that pops up. When things get fixed are good everyone goes silent on that, tho.
There was a ton of negative propaganda in the press directed at the Volt, To me it is sad to see so much negative stuff towards Tesla. I like to take the larger view of things even though I am a big fan of my Volt. I hear so much discussion about Tesla, but nothing about the dozen something Chinese brands that apparently no one has heard of that are the largest selling EV companies in the world. You guys get so focused on your own back yards you miss the point that there is an entire world out there where the U.S. is one market, and the world is moving forward with this, whether or not Tesla succeeds at this point. I credit Tesla with bringing EV's and some other new concepts into reality, and if you like domestic brands at least Tesla is that ...
 

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I do think putting everything on the center touchscreen was a mistake. Too cumbersome even if it's working correctly.
I agree 100%. We humans need some tactile feedback on at least the major controls (heat, ac, etc) so we can do things without taking eyes from the road.

One big touchscreen is for the era AFTER everything is reliably self-driving
 

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I agree 100%. We humans need some tactile feedback on at least the major controls (heat, ac, etc) so we can do things without taking eyes from the road.

One big touchscreen is for the era AFTER everything is reliably self-driving
Companies try different things and try to be on the cusp of the next generation and era. Everyone has to be the beginning of change.

A lot of things can be done with voice commands (or can be changed/enhanced to as they already started to do in Tesla Model 3 case (i.e. ACC speed controls) as well as steering wheel controls.

Recall or go back and read the reviews on this setup and tactile feedback and nubs. Another example of where many (of us) defended GM but now attack others. :)
 

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Tesla bashing is so tiresome. But they are american made and haven't gone bankrupt and haven't asked for lower fuel economy standards.

But the most important aspect is the products, which are amazing.
Ask the person who owns one!

Edmunds got their car in Dec. 2017. An early model.
Consumer reports also used an early car.

Our TM3 made in mid-april 2018 has had none of the problems that are described in its 2000 miles.
The complaints about the screen interface are mostly just resistance to change and unfamiliarity with good GUI's.
The car has many, many cool little features that make it a pleasure to use and rarely get mentioned.
The ventilation system is so brilliant that for the first time ever my wife and I can both get it set so we are comfortable at the same time. This system is real accomplishment.
Tesla makes changes as they make the cars without waiting for the next model year.
You can either look at this as screwing the early owners or continuously improving the product.
They just upgraded the rear seats and we won't get that.
They just upgraded the braking, auto high beams, and audio interface and we got all those for "free" while the car sat in our garage.

Is the TM3 perfect? No, but it beats the hell out of a Volt or Bolt in my opinion.
I've enjoyed the two Volts we've had but been driven crazy by their geek-car aspects and what GM left off (ACC, electric memory seats and mirrors and more.

And as far as styling it is of course in the eye of the beholder. But next to a model 3 every other car on the road, except Porsches, look like Christmas trees. Some like that.
 

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There may be record numbers, but the numbers are still small. And we are still talking about people of significant means. The Tesla they are buying has significant cache associated with it, and for people with multiple cars that may be all that matters. For a middle class buyer where this is their only vehicle, the problems being reported could easily be deal breakers.
 

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In California, I hope that the police and California Highway Patrol actively issue tickets to Tesla Model 3 owners for not displaying their license plates on the front of the car. Almost all pictures that I saw in Facebook of Californians with TM3 don't have their license plates installed in front of the car. Why won't they install it? For such large battery packs, the reduction of range caused by the license plate is minimal. It is illegal in California to not display the two license plates issued.
 

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Lot of refinements have gone on in several months. Record sales so they must be doing something right.
I am not inclined to call it sales, but rather order fulfillment like some other people commented in other articles. The real numbers would be, how many new orders are being added to the current queue?
 

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I am not inclined to call it sales, but rather order fulfillment like some other people commented in other articles. The real numbers would be, how many new orders are being added to the current queue?
Record monthly sales and now there is great spin that'll be repeated for many many months. End of quarter for GM and Tesla will show the car sales numbers they put on the books. Until then they are just many months/years of educated guesses.

Our new GM Volts (G1 '11 & G2 '16) were waited on for several weeks (several months for G1 '11). The GM dealer(s) could NOT tell me exactly when they would be built/shipped/delivered. Neither G1 or G2. They finally emailed and said it was going to be built and they would fulfill my long time order. I paid the sale price - $1K then signed our sales/finance doc. New Volt owner drives away.

TM3 sales price - $1K = due at physical delivery of new car along with all sales/finance documentation. Owner drives away in their new car.
 
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