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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Greetings GM-VOLT.COM community,

We're honored to be the newest Supporting Vendor of the forum. My name is Steve Cummings and I am a Senior Manager at Evatran the company that makes and markets (all in the USA by the way) the only wireless EV charger in the world.

First, you should know I commute mostly with a HEV Prius (partial ICE shame) and the rest of the time with leg power (bike - ICE penance), but alas - no Volt. Maybe my next vehicle.

We're excited to bring this community more information about wireless EV charging (WEVC) and working on programs and specials and to be a productive corporate member of this community. I'll be here to answer any questions you have, and to weigh in on what's true and not true about WEVC, after all Driverguy01 can't do it all.

Thanks for having us and...

Charge On!

Steve C.
 

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Glad to see you here. One has to love the idea of wireless charging. So convenient. Not having to plug in means one less thing to hassle with, and one less thing to forget to do! (We've all been there). Just plug in and park and it's done. No muss and no fuss. It's definitely the future.
 

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Welcome Steve, and since you're here, how does the plugless system work when not in a garage? For instance I live in a house that has no garage but has a drive way, would it be safe to operate out in the weather? This question holds for other obvious applications such as parking lots at stores etc.
 

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So what's the charging efficiency, from wall to battery of the wireless charging system? It is good to compare them with the charging efficiency of cord from wall to battery. If the difference in overall efficiency is more than 2.5%, that would indeed be a waste of energy and money for me.
 

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I've been in email communication with folks at Plugless for a while. I'll pull the trigger some time later this year. Mine will be in a garage bay.

Since I have a two-bay garage, how difficult is it to move the transmission device to the other bay? This wouldn't be done often, just as family needs dictate parking in a different location. Like a couple times a year. Could the wall unit be mounted offset from the middle of a bay to the middle of the garage wall, for example? Looks like that in Driverguy01's video.

After receiver install on the car, I'm assuming that the standard charge port will still operate?

Can two cars be equipped with receivers for use with one transmission pad?

This thread should probably be a sticky in a vendor area of the site.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
All kinds of weather, we charge together/ The same in the rain or sun.

The short answer is, it works and is designed for all-weather use. Both DonC and DriverGuy01 are outdoor installs - one is in Texas and the other is in Canada.

But I suspect you have more specific questions - hit me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Looking throught the Plugless website I noticed that the charge current is 3.3KW (13.75A @240V) yet the unit requires a 30A circuit? So the unit draws more than 16A when charging at 3.3KW?
To Luboc's point - we'll be setting up threads in our vendor forum, one of which will be technical specs, where we'll address (to the extent that we can w/o giving away our technical secrets) those questions and others. In the meantime these specs published by the U.S. Dept. of Energy/ Idaho National Laboratory should answer many questions (and from experience, generate more questions). http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/02/f8/evatran_wireless_charging_fs.pdf
 

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So what's the charging efficiency, from wall to battery of the wireless charging system? It is good to compare them with the charging efficiency of cord from wall to battery. If the difference in overall efficiency is more than 2.5%, that would indeed be a waste of energy and money for me.
Its more than 2.5% because it adds an extra energy conversion step between the plug and the battery charger. All conversions create losses.
Technical details on the Plugless system are in this report by Idaho national Laboratory:
http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/evse/EvatranWirelessChargingFactsheetAug2013.pdf

It puts the Plugless system loss at 11%-14% depending on how the car is parked over the transmitter. Assuming 12K EV miles and $0.13/kWh national averages, that loss costs ~$60 per year extra. Writing it off over 10 years puts the net cost of the entire system (including installation and losses) around $200/year. That is about the same as an Onstar subscription, or an XM radio.

I think the system is neat, as EVSE cable wrestling is a daily annoyance for me. Even though plugging my Volt in the garage takes barely 5 seconds, I sometimes forget to do so. Given that the price dropped to $1260, it is a nice EV luxury to consider. Compared to all the other accessories for cars, this one is not overpriced at all.
 

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Looking throught the Plugless website I noticed that the charge current is 3.3KW (13.75A @240V) yet the unit requires a 30A circuit? So the unit draws more than 16A when charging at 3.3KW?
The detailed technical specsof the Plugless system (http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/evse/EvatranWirelessChargingFactsheetAug2013.pdf ) show that the measured input current is 28 Amps. That would indeed need a 30A circuit. The reason is probably that the power factor of the Plugless system seems to be rather low at 0.65. Utility companies don't like that because current is flowing without energy being delivered.

Quick analysis based on the measurements by Idaho National Laboratory of the Plugless system:
Input: 208V AC at 28 Amps with 0.65 power factor. So 208x28x0.65 = 3786 Watt
Output: 214V DC at 15.4A = 3296 Watt

So Efficiency = 3296W/3786W = 0.87, which means a 13% energy loss in the Plugless system.
 

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I've been in email communication with folks at Plugless for a while. I'll pull the trigger some time later this year. Mine will be in a garage bay.

Since I have a two-bay garage, how difficult is it to move the transmission device to the other bay? This wouldn't be done often, just as family needs dictate parking in a different location. Like a couple times a year. Could the wall unit be mounted offset from the middle of a bay to the middle of the garage wall, for example? Looks like that in Driverguy01's video.

Yes it is easy to move the pad around, just 3 pins connect the pad to the ground but, i took them out so i can move the pad around. Make sure you don't roll over the cord and everything will work fine.
I need to specify something here, those of you who have asphalt in the parking will need to move the pad around once in a while as parking in the same space will create divots in the asphalt. So in the summer heat, better move the pad around a little bit once every 3 or 4 weeks.

After receiver install on the car, I'm assuming that the standard charge port will still operate?

Yes.

Can two cars be equipped with receivers for use with one transmission pad?
Yes and No, Only one car can be paired with the CP at one time, so you would have to pair the second vehicule and then the first would not be detected, so, 1 CP to 1 Car.

This thread should probably be a sticky in a vendor area of the site.
Agree, these question come back often.
 

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I'd like to welcome Steve to the forum.
I don't work for Plugless, I'm just a pioneer who want this technology to succeed as i think it makes for a much better and cleaner environnement than plugs and cords everywhere open to vandals in a city or shopping mall.
I'm hopping for a universall system that you can use everywhere you go with inboard guidance system eventually.
Efficiency of wireless is a subject that comes up often, here's my take on it;
Of course i'd like to see better numbers but it will get a little bit better in time.
For now, it's a luxury system, much like having leather seats or navigation system (we all have smartphone with this already but a lot of people still choose that option:confused:)
Pumping the tires to 40 or 42psi from 35psi will pretty much cancel the efficiency loss.
We now drive cars (Volts) that are way more efficient than our previous ICE cars, and my Plugless adds about a nickel of electricity every day to recharge my car. With my previous ice car, i'd waste way more than that just sitting at traffic lights, so, once you put this in perspective, it becomes a non issue.

Try this, ask your wife who is likely not as excited as you are, about plugging the car, if she would give up the plug for an extra $30 to $60 a year?
You already know the answer....
 

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I'd be more inclined to consider plugless if it enabled faster charging than plug- in L2. The only real thing you gain is 10s of seconds time plugging and unplugging the car. I guess if plugging in is so objectionable to you, then plugless is the answer.
 

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I'd be more inclined to consider plugless if it enabled faster charging than plug- in L2. The only real thing you gain is 10s of seconds time plugging and unplugging the car. I guess if plugging in is so objectionable to you, then plugless is the answer.
The Plugless system connects to the 'On Board Charging Module', just like the EVSE receptacle. Faster charging would require a different OBCM.

I agree its a luxury item. But I think the price point starts making Plugless worthwhile, certainly compared to other convenience accessories for cars. $1260 buys a real good and useful piece of engineering. I hope the company succeeds, and that this becomes a factory-installed option eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I agree its a luxury item. But I think the price point starts making Plugless worthwhile, certainly compared to other convenience accessories for cars. $1260 buys a real good and useful piece of engineering. I hope the company succeeds, and that this becomes a factory-installed option eventually.
We agree on all points :)
 

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The Plugless system connects to the 'On Board Charging Module', just like the EVSE receptacle. Faster charging would require a different OBCM.

I agree its a luxury item. But I think the price point starts making Plugless worthwhile, certainly compared to other convenience accessories for cars. $1260 buys a real good and useful piece of engineering. I hope the company succeeds, and that this becomes a factory-installed option eventually.
I understand all that and don't dispute anything except the price that basically just eliminates the need to plug the car in. If you want it, that's just fine. I sure some will consider it well worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I understand all that and don't dispute anything except the price that basically just eliminates the need to plug the car in. If you want it, that's just fine. I sure some will consider it well worth it.
Our customers come to us for a variety of reasons but it's never a specific desire to save 3 to 5 seconds of plugging in time (note we don't market to that...) But after a few weeks, the convenience, the seamlessness of the integration, the simplicity of Plugless seems to sink in and they can't imaging going back to plugging in - they forget to charge altogether and that's a good thing. Note that for some of our owners physical limitations or disabilities makes plugging in a real challenge and we've had a couple recent inquiries that came from people who, finding out about Plugless, are on the path from making the leap from ICE to PHEV (or BEV in one case). That's part of our mission to hasten EV adoption by offering a new easy, seamless way to fuel your vehicle.
 

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Having a wireless system just removes one more minor thing you need to think about. How many times have you gone out to the garage to check to see if the car is plugged in? (This may happen more for me because we have two cars, and one of those for several years was a BEV). Given that research has shown that the more things you have to think about the less well you perform, the less meaningless things you have to keep track of the more you can concentrate on the important things. So from that standpoint I think wireless charging is worth a lot more than people are thinking.

Our customers come to us for a variety of reasons but it's never a specific desire to save 3 to 5 seconds of plugging in time (note we don't market to that...) But after a few weeks, the convenience, the seamlessness of the integration, the simplicity of Plugless seems to sink in and they can't imaging going back to plugging in - they forget to charge altogether and that's a good thing.
I can totally see this. It's what I was referring to above.
 

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Welcome! Just adding to the above discussion, I think Plugless Power is also great for outdoor installations or situations where you want to minimize trip hazards by removing the charging cable.
 

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It puts the Plugless system loss at 11%-14% depending on how the car is parked over the transmitter. Assuming 12K EV miles and $0.13/kWh national averages, that loss costs ~$60 per year extra. Writing it off over 10 years puts the net cost of the entire system (including installation and losses) around $200/year. That is about the same as an Onstar subscription, or an XM radio.

I think the system is neat, as EVSE cable wrestling is a daily annoyance for me. Even though plugging my Volt in the garage takes barely 5 seconds, I sometimes forget to do so. Given that the price dropped to $1260, it is a nice EV luxury to consider. Compared to all the other accessories for cars, this one is not overpriced at all.
Thanks for your reference truly appreciate that. Our society are trying very hard to maximize efficiency and minimize losses as we transition to renewables and electric vehicles. We are scrounging up efficiency gains anywhere we could find them and it is very disappointing figure, the 11%-14% is. It is greater than the transmission line losses! Per individual, it may not matter at all, but sum up all these losses as additional demands on our grid. It is just too much when there is widespread adoption.

It wasn't very hard to create the iRobot Roomba to plug itself into a charging station. Why not do the same concept to plugging the car. An iRobot EV charger in your garage that will plug your car should eliminate this loss and it would be truly worth it. It will also automatically unplug and then tuck away into standby mode as soon as you switch to drive from parked.
 
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