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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)

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There is a Cadillac XT5 Hybrid in China and a possible XT4 PHEV in testing phase. There are past posts showing it covered under camouflage. GM may give us a suprise next January.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112428_cadillac-xt5-crossover-gets-mild-hybrid-system-in-china
If Cadillac continues to make the PHEVs in China because China has high import tariffs and laws that are forcing manufacturers to sell plug-ins, then I suspect that it'll continue to have the underwhelmed reaction in the USA that it's having to the CT6 PHEV.

Having SUV plug-ins in Europe and China makes a bigger difference to sales of the SUV than it does in the USA where many more people drive oversized cash cows fed by cheap gas. Once you see lots more plug-in SUVs in the USA it'll be a sign that PEV margins are matching ICEVs.
 

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My Chevy Volts were great. I traded in my BMW X5 for my first Volt in 2012. Had 3 Volts. But I need an SUV (electric seats and towing). Only European and Asian company choices are available.

Just picked up a 2018 PHEV BMW X5 eDrive (3rd year for this model). Mercedes also has a PHEV. Not seeing that with American Car companies.

https://www.autobytel.com/sport-utility-vehicles/car-buying-guides/10-plug-in-hybrid-suvs-current-and-upcoming-131143/
Most Euro PHEVs are EPA rated 0-13 miles AER for all test cycles. Best test cycle is 14 miles. This is common due to how Euro laws are written. Nearly all PHEVs are 14 miles which is the minimum. Apparently BMW advertises 19 miles of range but submitted 14 peak to the EPA.

A 4 cyl hybrid mid-sized SUV, 25 mpg on 91 octane with <14 miles of mild EV range, would not be my choice in powerplants or form factors for towing.
I'd just get something more capable of towing safely with an engine that will survive high demands at altitude.

If you powerbrake it with a fully charged battery, it is almost as quick as a Bolt. But it does not have modern SUV tow capacity or acceleration or room. It is a full second slower to freeway speed, lacks passing power, has no 8 passenger, or 8400lb towing ability. But it is priced about about the same. When you calculate the difference between regular and premium, it's about the same cost per mile when loaded up. While 4 cylinders need to use RPM to make significant power, V8's can cruise loaded at low RPM.

Yes you are right, so far neither Ford or GM are making PHEVs without significant AER. That's for the Euro market. And for American buyers who place great value on badging.
 

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And whatever happened to the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that is in Japan and Europe, but keeps getting delayed in the US?
 

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Yes you are right, so far neither Ford or GM are making PHEVs without significant AER. That's for the Euro market. And for American buyers who place great value on badging.
I forgot to mention that Ford is testing a PHEV (Energi) version of the Escape as shown in previous posts. We don't have all the details but it will probably be a 2019 MY for next year. Maybe Ford has more and , as GM does, hides its models until they are ready for production. So by next year we can expect at least three new PHEVs and hybrid CUVs.
http://insideevs.com/ford-escape-energi-plug-hybrid-spy-photos/
 

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And whatever happened to the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that is in Japan and Europe, but keeps getting delayed in the US?
It won't be released because it only has an estimated 20 mile electric range and NO CHAdeMO inlet for fast charging.
Appears to be a European compliance car...:rolleyes:
 

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I think Volvo has the most interesting products in this space right now. The 2018 XC90 T8 gets 19 miles of EV range and the (new) XC60 gets 18 miles. The XC90 T8 has been out for a year or two, but the battery size was increased slightly to 10.4 kw this year. It is a bit odd that the larger XC90 gets 1 more mile of range than the smaller XC60. I have a feeling Volvo is pushing the smaller XC60 as a more sporting version and I wonder if some power tuning is coming into play there. Indeed, Volvo dealers are just now getting T8 demos in stock and they are all "R-Design" variants (i.e. their "sports package" on this SUV).

While the total EV range is still half what even a first gen Volt produced, I do like that Volvo's approach is to make the "eco hybrid" ALSO the "performance" version of the car (400hp combined). Most of the Germans make you choose - you either get the one with a plug OR the fast one.

While few SUVs are truly sporty (maybe the Macan...but it is pretty light on actual "utility") this one looks to be pretty nice. I'll definitely be test driving one as a possible replacement for our 2012 Volvo XC60 R-Design.

Ralph7 - would be interested to hear what you think of of your X5.
 

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I think Volvo has the most interesting products in this space right now. The 2018 XC90 T8 gets 19 miles of EV range and the (new) XC60 gets 18 miles. The XC90 T8 has been out for a year or two, but the battery size was increased slightly to 10.4 kw this year. It is a bit odd that the larger XC90 gets 1 more mile of range than the smaller XC60. I have a feeling Volvo is pushing the smaller XC60 as a more sporting version and I wonder if some power tuning is coming into play there. Indeed, Volvo dealers are just now getting T8 demos in stock and they are all "R-Design" variants (i.e. their "sports package" on this SUV).

While the total EV range is still half what even a first gen Volt produced, I do like that Volvo's approach is to make the "eco hybrid" ALSO the "performance" version of the car (400hp combined). Most of the Germans make you choose - you either get the one with a plug OR the fast one.

While few SUVs are truly sporty (maybe the Macan...but it is pretty light on actual "utility") this one looks to be pretty nice. I'll definitely be test driving one as a possible replacement for our 2012 Volvo XC60 R-Design.

Ralph7 - would be interested to hear what you think of of your X5.
Now if they'd only make a V90 or V60 Cross Country edition with a plug and double the battery life.... interestingly enough the Volvo website shows a new VC40 covered in a tarp. I'm guessing it will be revealed at the Geneva car show this week. Alas, I'm on the fence whether the Chinese ownership of Volvo should affect any plans to buy one. I know Ford couldn't afford to keep them, but I wish they did.
 

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Those kind of ranges would make me sad. The grocery store I like to go to is 12 miles away.
 

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What sold me on the Volts was solid all-EV acceleration for a reasonable combat radius. We rarely use gasoline, even when climbing hills at high speeds. In my eyes, the Volt is an EV in practice, and only a hybrid when special circumstances arise.

This is what all the PHEVs I've tested have lacked, even the new CT6 Hybrid which is why we bought the ICE version.

There is no reason a PHEV SUV/CUV needs to be different. If I find need for an SUV, it would be ICE if all that was available was the current offerings. Some say the Model X is a solution. Towing and EVs is not a good fit right now. EREV could be, but not BEV.
 

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What sold me on the Volts was solid all-EV acceleration for a reasonable combat radius. We rarely use gasoline, even when climbing hills at high speeds. In my eyes, the Volt is an EV in practice, and only a hybrid when special circumstances arise.

This is what all the PHEVs I've tested have lacked, even the new CT6 Hybrid which is why we bought the ICE version.

There is no reason a PHEV SUV/CUV needs to be different. If I find need for an SUV, it would be ICE if all that was available was the current offerings. Some say the Model X is a solution. Towing and EVs is not a good fit right now. EREV could be, but not BEV.
This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question, but I hate posting to the Tesla forum, they've got some pretentious weirdos over there (I know, pot calling the kettle...). Does anybody know how much of a range hit you get when towing say a 5K pound trailer with a Model X?
 

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This is probably the wrong forum to ask this question, but I hate posting to the Tesla forum, they've got some pretentious weirdos over there (I know, pot calling the kettle...). Does anybody know how much of a range hit you get when towing say a 5K pound trailer with a Model X?
ICE on the freeway it's about 25% to 50% range decrease for a 5000lb trailer. Terrain, shape of trailer, speed all come into play.
There has been some questions about the durability of the Model X hitch system, which is not surprising. Steel is normally used on frames for towing.
 

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ICE on the freeway it's about 25% to 50% range decrease for a 5000lb trailer. Terrain, shape of trailer, speed all come into play.
There has been some questions about the durability of the Model X hitch system, which is not surprising. Steel is normally used on frames for towing.
Yeah, my guess is that the hitch is probably fine for a bike rack and a trailer with some jet skis or ATVs, but it's not a truck, so a 24 foot camper or fully loaded 16 foot utility trailer with thousands of pounds of hay is probably too much for the X. If I end up getting an X, I'll probably still have to keep the Suburban. At this moment, it appears that the only SUVs in the running are a Suburban or a Land Rover, both can tow about 8500 pounds. Then there's always a crew cab Silverado which sacrifices 3rd row seating and interior cargo for the truck bed. Decisions, decisions....
 

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Most Euro PHEVs are EPA rated 0-13 miles AER for all test cycles. Best test cycle is 14 miles. This is common due to how Euro laws are written. Nearly all PHEVs are 14 miles which is the minimum. Apparently BMW advertises 19 miles of range but submitted 14 peak to the EPA.
If there were inner-city congestion charges in North America, with an exemption for vehicles with a 20 mile battery range, we'd see lots of SUVs and even pickups in that category.
 

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Yeah, my guess is that the hitch is probably fine for a bike rack and a trailer with some jet skis or ATVs, but it's not a truck, so a 24 foot camper or fully loaded 16 foot utility trailer with thousands of pounds of hay is probably too much for the X. If I end up getting an X, I'll probably still have to keep the Suburban. At this moment, it appears that the only SUVs in the running are a Suburban or a Land Rover, both can tow about 8500 pounds. Then there's always a crew cab Silverado which sacrifices 3rd row seating and interior cargo for the truck bed. Decisions, decisions....
There are several Model X Towing threads over at TMC. Power isn't an issue, but range is. In one thread I was looking at, he was towing a 4500 lb Airstream and generally burning 500-600 wH/mile. With a 90D at 50 mph, the 130 mile average distance between Superchargers was doable. But I wouldn't want to try it with a 75.

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/thr...ort-90d-and-airstream-22ft-bambi-sport.74540/
 
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