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Discussion Starter #1
I've noticed lately that people in the community are more receptive when I tell them I get about 110 miles per dollar in my Volt and rising the more gas prices go up. If you don't use solar from your home then you can say you get about 25 MPD and rising. Telling people a Prius now only gets about 11-13 MPD and dropping with higher gas prices or the average car gets 6-7 MPD really opens people's eyes..... The Volt vs Prius MPD spread is getting bigger assuming you charge the Volt normally...

MrEnergyCzar
 

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Like I said on the other thread, 300 MPD! Love it!
 

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When your fuel comes from 50' away on your own property, it's quite a nice story too. That adds to the allure of the story for you guys.
 

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I agree that MPD is the best way to wake people up as to the saving in energy costs and the even greater savings with solar.

I am concidering getting a solar aray, but need to get more info on what edison is currently offerig to home oners that want to hook up, and what goverment incentives there are available.

Using Edison as your storage battery rather than actual batteries is a lot better, unless you live in aplace where the utility is not dependable.

My night rate charging is costing me about $1.00 per charge, or 40 MPD in the summer and 30 MPD in the winter.
Reducing my driving cost by $1.00 / day is not a lot. of incentive to go solar, but saving $100/ month on the other part of my bill would be.
 

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I still say the best ROI on solar is done with a time of use plan where solar replaces your peak usage. Smaller system maximum return.
 

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That's great that you have found something that is resonating. Most of the people I socialize are probably in the top 30% of income earners in my geographic area and if I asked any of them how many MPD they are getting they would have no clue. I get over 320 MPG in my Volt and, off the top of my head, I don't know what my MPD is either.

This is not to put down a way of communicating that you have found to be effective. I say it because I have still found that the best way to get through to people is to communicate in a way that they understand. MPG is something people understand and instead of trying to change their paradigm I simply state that my Volt is getting over 320 MPG. The astute ones will engage you with why this is slightly misleading and we can have a discussion about MPGe or about how my Volt saves me over $2,000 per year over the cost of operating a car that got 30 MPG (or maybe even MPD). The ones that have average intellect and/or curiosity will understand the MPG reference point and won't delve too much deeper.

There's no one way to get through to people but it's good to hear of other approaches that are working. I guess I should fully understand my MPD but most people in my circle don't talk like this. Perhaps if we undertook the task of understanding our individual MPDs together it would turn a light bulb on in their (and my) head.
 

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In a discussion
MPG shock and awe
MPD reality cost to operate and the real discussion

And if you can talk alternatives energy.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
That's great that you have found something that is resonating. Most of the people I socialize are probably in the top 30% of income earners in my geographic area and if I asked any of them how many MPD they are getting they would have no clue. I get over 320 MPG in my Volt and, off the top of my head, I don't know what my MPD is either.

This is not to put down a way of communicating that you have found to be effective. I say it because I have still found that the best way to get through to people is to communicate in a way that they understand. MPG is something people understand and instead of trying to change their paradigm I simply state that my Volt is getting over 320 MPG. The astute ones will engage you with why this is slightly misleading and we can have a discussion about MPGe or about how my Volt saves me over $2,000 per year over the cost of operating a car that got 30 MPG (or maybe even MPD). The ones that have average intellect and/or curiosity will understand the MPG reference point and won't delve too much deeper.

There's no one way to get through to people but it's good to hear of other approaches that are working. I guess I should fully understand my MPD but most people in my circle don't talk like this. Perhaps if we undertook the task of understanding our individual MPDs together it would turn a light bulb on in their (and my) head.
This is true, it depends who you are around. I work and earn very little and my co-workers earn even less and feel the pain of $4.10 gas. It kills them to see my Volt plugged in at work in front of the door everyday but they also know I changed the way I lived the past 5 years so I can actually afford the Volt etc....

MrEnergyCzar
 

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Kup, I skip the MPG and MPD stuff and just them that it's so much fun to make them look like Grandpa by smoking their BMWs off the line. Only kidding. Well maybe half kidding. I sort of do a variation on the MPD. I ask them what MPG they get. Then I tell them that I can buy gas for their car at $/gallon. For example, it costs me about a penny per mile to charge. So if they get 25 MPG then my "gas" costs twenty-five cents a gallon rather than the nearly five bucks they have to pay.

Just depends on what you find works. MPD doesn't seem that natural for me because it's too many calculations but it's basically the same thing.
 

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I'm finding that most of the people that ask me about the car get the "deer in the head lights" look when I start talking about MPGe, MPG or MPD. When they ask what kind of mileage I get, I tell them I've driven 4200 on 5 gallons of gas. After they laugh and ask me seriously?, I explain that I drive ~30 miles per day and charge at night, costing me less than $1/day and only use gas on trips over 40 miles. What usually follows is the 20 minute discussion and trip around the parking lot. Two comments that I usually hear are: This can't be electric and are you sure this is a Chevy? People have this build in mind set that Chevy's are "working peoples cars" and cannot be luxurious.
 

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I'm finding that most of the people that ask me about the car get the "deer in the head lights" look when I start talking about MPGe, MPG or MPD. When they ask what kind of mileage I get, I tell them I've driven 4200 on 5 gallons of gas. After they laugh and ask me seriously?, I explain that I drive ~30 miles per day and charge at night, costing me less than $1/day and only use gas on trips over 40 miles. What usually follows is the 20 minute discussion and trip around the parking lot. Two comments that I usually hear are: This can't be electric and are you sure this is a Chevy? People have this build in mind set that Chevy's are "working peoples cars" and cannot be luxurious.
that is exactly what i get. they expect it to be a burt and earnie muppetmobile that is cheap and odd looking like a prius or leaf, not a luxury car. after they look at it the price comments stop. next comes the gas mileage question and i answer it the same as you. it freaks people out, when i let them drive it they are simply in awe. they have been so conditioned by fox news when they see it for them selves it's nothing they have been convinced it was. i have let about 10 people drive mine and all of they have gone home to talk to their spouse's about one. one thing is for sure it has definitely shaken their trust in fox news and i find that amusing to say the least.
 

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I'm finding that most of the people that ask me about the car get the "deer in the head lights" look when I start talking about MPGe, MPG or MPD. When they ask what kind of mileage I get, I tell them I've driven 4200 on 5 gallons of gas. After they laugh and ask me seriously?, I explain that I drive ~30 miles per day and charge at night, costing me less than $1/day and only use gas on trips over 40 miles. What usually follows is the 20 minute discussion and trip around the parking lot. Two comments that I usually hear are: This can't be electric and are you sure this is a Chevy? People have this build in mind set that Chevy's are "working peoples cars" and cannot be luxurious.
This is exactly what I have found!! I had a colleague at work going through the numbers and seemed really knowledgeable about the Volt but was still negative towards. I let him take it for a spin and he was like "WOW!".

Also, I find people tend to go to the extreme cases. For instance they will say that at 150 miles of driving a day it's not any better than a regular car. Then I ask how far they live from work and they say 5 miles. :confused: Then I have to explain that 78% of people drive less than 40 miles a day, etc. In my opinion everyone wants to go to the worst case driving condition and go back from there. Probably similar to the guy who thinks he needs a Suburban because he takes one trip a year.

People tend to over-estimate their daily driving so the 40 mile range sounds low, when in fact in most cases it is not. I am going to start my conversations about the car from now on by asking about daily driving scenarios and work back from that.
 

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Miles per dollar is one good way, but the cost per mile is another, and it is just as easy to calculate. When a car driver goes for a fill-up, reset the miles to zero on the trip counter (all cars have one). The when the car driver return for the next fill-up, divide the fill-up cost by the miles on the trip counter. On another post here in the forum, someone managed four cents per mile (about 25 miles per dollar) which is excellent. My 1995 Buick Regal gave me twenty cents per mile or about five miles per dollar after my latest tank fill-up (about $55!).

This is my indicator on how I must get away from a pure ICE and save money by getting a BEV or a EREV. I know that this is a better indicator than pure MPG because we live based on real life costs, not on fancy gasoline usage figures. And I know that many import drivers are falsely believing that they get the same MPG rating no matter how they drive it, not realizing that heavy stop and go traffic useage brings down that number. So miles per dollar or cents per mile is a real number they can relate to, and can use to modify their driving habits and trip planning, yet see the results on their next gas tank fill-up without much math (I can do it mentally) or any special measuring equipment.

For all you Volt owners: keep up that miles per dollar number! They inspire me to keep waiting for my next vehicle (I have VES since the first day here!) and show the world some real numbers about the Chevy Volt that anyone can understand.
 

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First I prefer the term Mile per Fuel dollar. or MPF$ If you want real MPD you need to include the vehicle cost (TCO), which most people find way to hard to consider.

I've found that different people think differently and hence different approaches get them going. I prefer to start by asking them how efficient or how much does it currently cost them to drive, and then reply in whatever terms they use. When its not a conversation, but say a signature or statement, I just give them many forms, for example
From 10/29/11 to 3/22/12 we drove 3220 mi on 7.8 Gallons of Premium + 908kWh of wind power.
With total fuel costs of $81.80 that translates to 93.78MPGe, 412 MPG and 39.41 MPF$ or $.0233/m


It helps that I keep a spreadsheet to compute all of these :)
 

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Tboult, I would propose a little modification: I think it should be a Mile Per Energy Dollar, (MPED)
especially when the energy used is electricity - there might be no fuel used - even at producing the electricity.
This definition could then that into account all types of energy: gasoline, diesel, cng, propane, electricity.

Francois
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based on this discussion I put together a spreadsheet for my volt - based on the data on voltstats.net, and compared it to what I would have spent with my Honda Pilot. Keep in mind I drive a LOT of miles. 90 mile round trip to work - charge at home and at work, and lots of travel soccer/events for my kids (sadly burning gas). My lifetime MPG for the volt has been hovering at 80mpg for a long time. I used to get about 19-20 mpg in my pilot.

volt: cost per mile (ev + gas Premium $3.60 per gallon) $0.06
pilot cost per mile (gas - estimated regular $3.50 per gallon) $0.18.

volt: miles per dollar - 16.9
pilot: miles per dollar - 5.43

my electricity cost is $40 per month fixed rate. Note: this is for February - when my EV miles were in the 28 mile per charge range and my gas usage (according to voltstats.net) was 35 mpg. In the summer I routinely get 42 miles per change. 1/2 of my commute is freeway generally at 67 mph. The other 1/2 is rural 2 lane roads at 55 mph. Sport + Low. Climate Econ at 74 degrees. Stereo - cramped up.
 

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I agree that MPD is the best way to wake people up as to the saving in energy costs and the even greater savings with solar.

I am concidering getting a solar aray, but need to get more info on what edison is currently offerig to home oners that want to hook up, and what goverment incentives there are available.

Using Edison as your storage battery rather than actual batteries is a lot better, unless you live in aplace where the utility is not dependable.

My night rate charging is costing me about $1.00 per charge, or 40 MPD in the summer and 30 MPD in the winter.
Reducing my driving cost by $1.00 / day is not a lot. of incentive to go solar, but saving $100/ month on the other part of my bill would be.
Marlow- The federal incentive for solar is currently 30% of your total costs to install the solar array, taken as a tax credit off your next year's income tax. Here is a link of specific Michigan solar incentives.

http://www.solarhome.org/michiganresidentialsolarenergyincentives.html

I hope solar works for you.
 

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Tboult, I would propose a little modification: I think it should be a Mile Per Energy Dollar, (MPED)
especially when the energy used is electricity - there might be no fuel used - even at producing the electricity.
This definition could then that into account all types of energy: gasoline, diesel, cng, propane, electricity.

Francois
B-2653
That works too, though I consider electricity my primary fuel. Energy may be better but people still think fuel.
 

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My iPhone app calculates miles per $ and miles per $ of gasoline. I can handle a couple more beta users, send me a pmif you're interested. Scottf200 had a couple of great suggestions that I'm working on adding in my spare time (work has been busy, so this got back-burnered...)

Oh, if you have more interesting calculations you'd like to add to my app, send those along as well.
 

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I've been working on an Android app that calculates these types of numbers and comparisons. If there is an interest. I can post a beta version on the Android Market Place (now Google Play).
 
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