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Parts Delays: I'm never buying another GM

7923 Views 55 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  markml, 
Steverino
We've seen many posts along those lines, typically because of justifiable frustration over long wait times for BECM, EGR or other replacement parts.

"GM doesn't care about supporting it's customers", or "we need a class action lawsuit" or similar statements are made.

I've pointed out that GM is not the only auto maker having these issues. The main cause continues to be supply chain issues that started with the Covid disruptions.

The latest news is GM feels your pain. They have almost 95,000 partially completed vehicles in storage waiting for parts. The unsold vehicles amounted to 16% of GM's total sales from April through June. This hit's their stock and bottom line in a bad way. If you think GM doesn't car about the back order mess, you'd be very wrong. They are actively working with suppliers to resolve issues.

Need more proof this is industry-wide, not just GM? Toyota lost sales in the US due to parts supply shortages, falling into 2nd place behind GM.

The chip shortage has vexed automakers across the globe since 2020, forcing many automakers to temporarily close factories and trim production. The shortage has limited the supply of new vehicles on dealer lots in the U.S. to around 1 million, when in normal years it's about 4 million at any given time.
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That's not to say we should be happy. No one would be happy having their car unusable or limping along for 3-4 months. I'm saying the grass is no greener with the other auto manufacturers. Blaming GM for something that's global and threatening to never buy another car from GM is understandable but unreasonable.

www.clickorlando.com

Chip shortage leaves 95K GM vehicles unfinished in storage

The global shortage of computer chips forced General Motors to build 95,000 vehicles without certain components during the second quarter.
www.clickorlando.com www.clickorlando.com
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D
They say "parts shortage". Why not sharing with public the real cause of BECM failure for those, who have knowledge and experience, could repair their modules instead of waiting for the replacement or being unable to order in case of out of warranty?
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M
I know this pain. I bought a car and was getting ready to drive it home but I can't due to a major defect in the transmission module. GM rep came to the dealership and said there were 4 modules available in my area but they're not sure if any of it is already allocated to a customer who's been waiting.
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The past year has been an extraordinary outlier in an otherwise good industry record of parts availability. In one year, the pandemic combined with semiconductor shortages and changes in global supply chain sourcing to create a perfect storm. It will take another year to work our way out of this. In the meantime, patience is called for, as tough as that may sound.
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Steverino
dvb said:
They say "parts shortage". Why not sharing with public the real cause of BECM failure for those, who have knowledge and experience, could repair their modules instead of waiting for the replacement or being unable to order in case of out of warranty?
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If it was that easy they'd have the Volt techs at Chevy dealerships doing them and having you sign legal disclaimers.
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Steverino said:
If it was that easy they'd have the Volt techs at Chevy dealerships doing them and having you sign legal disclaimers.
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I never said it's easy! The "techs at dealerships" may not have needed equipment and knowledge to repair microelectronics. But there're many people, who can reball bad BGA chips on videocards and change HDD heads in "clean rooms" to extract information. These people could try repairing BECMs if there'd been the proper knowledge of what exactly is wrong.

For now it seems they just want to make as much money as they can out of those, who has no warranty. What awful will happen if they make the cause public? What harm will it make to GM or LG?
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begreen
dvb said:
They say "parts shortage". Why not sharing with public the real cause of BECM failure for those, who have knowledge and experience, could repair their modules instead of waiting for the replacement or being unable to order in case of out of warranty?
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Why isn't there a refurbishing program for this component? It's rare for a circuit board to have a catastrophic, unrepairable failure. Fix the issue(s) and resell at a discounted price.
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Steverino
dvb said:
I never said it's easy! The "techs at dealerships" may not have needed equipment and knowledge to repair microelectronics. But there're many people, who can reball bad BGA chips on videocards and change HDD heads in "clean rooms" to extract information. These people could try repairing BECMs if there'd been the proper knowledge of what exactly is wrong.

For now it seems they just want to make as much money as they can out of those, who has no warranty. What awful will happen if they make the cause public? What harm will it make to GM or LG?
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The tech's may not have the needed equipment and knowledge to repair microelectronics, but most owners (or you) would? I'd be surprised if more than a very small handful have what it takes. And if they did, they likely have the skill to diagnose and fix whatever the issue is. So get cracking!

How much money is the dealer making if they cant get parts?

begreen said:
Why isn't there a refurbishing program for this component? It's rare for a circuit board to have a catastrophic, unrepairable failure. Fix the issue(s) and resell at a discounted price.
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Beats me. Not a big enough market? Who would setup, staff and operate the refurb line? Seems like the company that makes to part would be in the best position to refurbish. If they are having a hard time delivering the new parts, I suspect there could be similar issues with getting and refurbishing and shipping old parts. I would not be surprised if there would be a shorter warranty on the refurb parts as well. Who pays to replace the part when it dies in 90 days, you right?
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bboaze
Bad solder joints were a 70s thing in the automotive world.
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Steverino
Bad part could be caused by a manufacturing defect (like the Bolt batteries that were replaced), substandard raw materials, early component failure or some combination of those.

I have a Samsung TV that stopped working about 8 years ago. I wasn't alone, it was all over the internet if doing a search. Somebody (not Samsung) ended up determining it was a number of substandard capacitors that snuck into the supply chain. I took apart the TV and located the bad capacitors They were visibly bulging on the top. Unsoldered them and soldered in new replacements. The TV is still working today though the quality is not up to today's standards... I'm just too cheap to replace it until it dies :)

I recently stumbled across this familiar sounding post:

"My Tesla M3 is with body shop repair for past 2 months, as the parts they have ordered from Tesla are on ‘back order’.
With these parts on being ‘back order’ , there is no time frame given on when these parts will be sent from Tesla.
So I have no idea when my car will be repaired and so I can drive it again As it is currently undriveable due to the damage.
is there anyway of finding out from Tesla exact situation with regards to supply?
The situation is very frustrating to say the least, as this could continue for more weeks, or even more months !"
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D
Steverino said:
The tech's may not have the needed equipment and knowledge to repair microelectronics, but most owners (or you) would? I'd be surprised if more than a very small handful have what it takes. And if they did, they likely have the skill to diagnose and fix whatever the issue is. So get cracking!
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I didn't say it will be owners, repairing the module, but one can find a good specialist to make a job, if it's known, some cellular repairing place would do. You state the capacitors in a Samsung TV - that sort of things I can do too: faulty powerbanks, motherboards, etc. Unfortunately, the caps on SMEC're hardly the cause, they look solid.

Cracking means testing and that can't be done without wiring the module to the car. But a good microelectronics specialist is rarely a mechanic too. Besides with cracking, there'd never be a confirmation the root cause was found before installing and test driving. If not - disassembling again. Noone wants to try that.
Steverino said:
How much money is the dealer making if they cant get parts?
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Eventually, people have to pay $400-$600, wait for the part and pray it will be available. But you're right, they won't make money fast due to components blackout. And in this case, they could make this big Secret public.

The post of a Tesla owner confirms, that they too don't want anyone to know the root causes of the problems. Why? Isn't that because of the desire to earn more money?
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dvb said:
I didn't say it will be owners, repairing the module, but one can find a good specialist to make a job, if it's known, some cellular repairing place would do. You state the capacitors in a Samsung TV - that sort of things I can do too: faulty powerbanks, motherboards, etc. Unfortunately, the caps on SMEC're hardly the cause, they look solid.

Cracking means testing and that can't be done without wiring the module to the car. But a good microelectronics specialist is rarely a mechanic too. Besides with cracking, there'd never be a confirmation the root cause was found before installing and test driving. If not - disassembling again. Noone wants to try that.

Eventually, people have to pay $400-$600, wait for the part and pray it will be available. But you're right, they won't make money fast due to components blackout. And in this case, they could make this big Secret public.

The post of a Tesla owner confirms, that they too don't want anyone to know the root causes of the problems. Why? Isn't that because of the desire to earn more money?
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I'm no expert (on anything!), but my gut tells me that GM is not keeping this "secret" in order to make more money. Rather, they are not publicizing whatever they might know about the faults, in order to not lose a ton of money in court. If they "crowd source" or otherwise enable non-GM folks to pursue solutions to any automotive problems, they open themselves up to future lawsuits for any harm done, due to failure of those DIY solutions.
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C
Not just the part but many of us need an easy way to re-program the BECM to clear lock codes.

In My case the float switch was a 2012 dealer installed option that locks charging about every 2 years tell a dealer reprogramming.
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Cord said:
Not just the part but many of us need an easy way to re-program the BECM to clear lock codes.

In My case the float switch was a 2012 dealer installed option that locks charging about every 2 years tell a dealer reprogramming.
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You don't have the WOT Sensor Defeat Plug?
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sbachman7117 said:
... future lawsuits for any harm done, due to failure of those DIY solutions.
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How is someone responsible for something, that is done by others? Who's responsible, if say someone removes airbag and then dies due to a crash in a wall, while that airbag could save his life?

I don't suggest sharing the cause and offering to repair. Just state the fact.
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Steverino
dvb said:
How is someone responsible for something, that is done by others?

I don't suggest sharing the cause and offering to repair. Just state the fact.
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I can easily imagine "My son was following GM's guidance when he repaired the part that later failed. His death was preventable if only GM had ...." GM is very risk averse. There was a Volt owner who parked his car in his garage and left the car on. After the battery was empty the car switched to the gas engine. Did he accept responsibility? Nope. He sued GM for almost being killed by carbon monoxide poisoning beacuse he left the car on in his garage. It was GM's fault, not his.

With your many "we need to be able to fix" the BECM instead of getting one from GM, I assume you've already searched the internet for companies that repair BECM's? If not, here's a company that says it can fix BECM's Body Control Module Repair & Reman Services Whether they actually can, I don't know. You can do your own searches, or like a new member in another thread you can blame me for not doing it for you. lol.

So what can go wrong with a BECM? According to someone who has worked on them here's a partial list:
  • Age related component failure. Unfortunately, components that fit one becm will not fit another if it was made before or after a certain date.
  • Power spikes (jump starts, etc.) can lead to reliability issues or failure.
  • Moisture intrusion can corrode boards.
  • Keep in mind the becm is always hot even when the ignition is off.
  • Data & signaling failure. These can only be tested with the becm under load.
Keep in mind, not all BECM's will fail for the same reason, and it could be a combination of causes.

Regarding moisture corrosion, keep in mind a number of Volt charge ports have failed after developing hairline cracks that allowed moisture intrusion that corroded a small circuit board encased in bakelite. Definitely not repairable. Perhaps something simialr is happening with some BECM's.

To repair a BECM may require unlocking it. Unlocking and repairing are not the same. Unlocking a BECM only lets it get reprogrammed. It wont fix any faults.

Here's a quote from a guy in the UK that works on LandRover BECM's
90% of becm's that our customers purchase from fleabay & such for us to reprogram for them get returned back to them after they fail testing, & then the same becm will appear on ebay a week later, again. By the time a used becm has been purchased, sent off to be reprogrammed & returned cost's sometimes more than purchasing a rebuilt unit, especially if it need's some sort of repair as well. It's always easier & cheaper to get the original becm repaired in the first place than it is to buy another, get it reprogrammed, etc etc.

Most of the companies in the past that repaired becm's have now stopped due to the increasing complexity of these modules, & others are just incapable but will still take your money & keep your becm for weeks at a time.

So, these becm's are a complex piece of kit, near on impossible to fix yourself without the specialist knowledge, let along the thousands of pounds worth of equipment.
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So, back on topic, parts shortages and backorders are widespread in the auto industry, whether GM, Tesla, Ford, etc. They are all painfully aware of the issue, it's hurting them to. It's not that they don't care, they are all working with their suppliers trying to address the issues. Using this as a reason to never buy another car from whichever brand is silly.
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D
dvb said:
I don't suggest sharing the cause and offering to repair. Just state the fact.
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Steverino said:
I can easily imagine "My son was following GM's guidance when he repaired the part that later failed. His death was preventable if only GM had ...."
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Again,, no guidance needed. Just the fact: "BECM fails due to the..." Period.
Steverino said:
... here's a company that says it can fix BECM's ... Whether they actually can, I don't know.
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Exactly! Not knowing the exact cause.

Speculations are known. The problem is that they're nothing more. And the real question is did GM really found the cause, or maybe all of these "new" modules will fail again in two or three years due to the same unfound or unrepairable issue?
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Steverino
dvb said:
Again,, no guidance needed. Just the fact: "BECM fails due to the..." Period.

Exactly! Not knowing the exact cause.

Speculations are known. The problem is that they're nothing more. And the real question is did GM really found the cause, or maybe all of these "new" modules will fail again in two or three years due to the same unfound or unrepairable issue?
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Contact a BECM repair/refurb company if you are serious. They should be able to tell you what they find with your bad BECM. Then you can report back here on what they tell you. Or, instead of doing something productive just keep complaining as below:
Hand Vertebrate Sharing Mammal Organism
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begreen
Steverino said:
Beats me. Not a big enough market? Who would setup, staff and operate the refurb line? Seems like the company that makes to part would be in the best position to refurbish. If they are having a hard time delivering the new parts, I suspect there could be similar issues with getting and refurbishing and shipping old parts. I would not be surprised if there would be a shorter warranty on the refurb parts as well. Who pays to replace the part when it dies in 90 days, you right?
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Considering there have been thousands(?) of BECM failures, it seems like the opportunity to refurbish them is high. Yes, there are many things that can happen to electronics, but not all are catastrophic like moisture damage. A lot of repair issues are just like what you have found out with your Samsung TV. Unfortunately, having a steady pipeline of cheap goods from Asia has killed the once active culture that supported many repair shops in the US. We used to expect things to last. Now we just head to Walmart or Amazon and order a replacement. This is not sustainable. If electronics have a simple failure then they should be repaired.
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