OVERNIGHT CHARGING REBATE ONTARIO
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Must have missed that one. Don't know how this would work (how would you meter this?). Given the public uproar about very high electricity rates in the province, this wouldn't play well in the court of public opinion. I can see the headlines "Tesla owners get break on hydro rates" and " Low income mother pleads with Prime Minister for hydro rate relief"
Those of us who have cars that plug in aren't seen as penny pinchers and in dire need of relief. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this to happen.
Those of us who have cars that plug in aren't seen as penny pinchers and in dire need of relief. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this to happen.
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Nothing further yet .... just the policy document itself.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/climate-change-action-plan#section-4
https://www.ontario.ca/page/climate-change-action-plan#section-4
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Supposed to start sometime in 2017 for 4 years.
2.3 Free overnight electric vehicle charging
The province intends to establish a four-year free overnight electric vehicle-charging program for residential and multi-unit residential customers starting in 2017. Charging electric cars at night can help balance electricity system demands and potentially reduce costs associated with exporting excess electricity overnight. Ontario intends to work with utilities to transition this program to an optional enhanced time-of-day charging program. The goal would be to lower overall electricity bills for homes that charge vehicles.
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I believe the funding is yet to be approved. Probably slated for the spring budget. Likely to be tabled in May- early June.
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I'm not holding my breath on this one, it is terribly complex to implement. I'd take a straight $$ rebate per battery size per year based on average numbers, because that would be easiest to do, but it kind of defeats the purpose to offer incentive for EV owners to only charge at night (off peak).
I expect this will quietly drop off the table from the Wynne government because of the logistical challenges of implementation, and the bad optics of their current hydro policies (Righties will have a major stink if the taxpayers are yet again subsidizing 'those expensive rich-people toys' (Right Wing Radio words, not mine).
I expect this will quietly drop off the table from the Wynne government because of the logistical challenges of implementation, and the bad optics of their current hydro policies (Righties will have a major stink if the taxpayers are yet again subsidizing 'those expensive rich-people toys' (Right Wing Radio words, not mine).
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Actually I think there is a lot of logic in offering a cheap overnight rate. But maybe they should apply it across the board.
If you look at Ontario's demand use (www.ieso.ca) You can see that our power demand is very low between 1am and 5am. And this is the period were Ontario has a lot of over capacity that we sell at a loss.
I think it would make sense to create a new rate group. A "super off-peak" rate that would apply to everyone. This would encourage load shifting for things like charging EV's.
If you look at Ontario's demand use (www.ieso.ca) You can see that our power demand is very low between 1am and 5am. And this is the period were Ontario has a lot of over capacity that we sell at a loss.
I think it would make sense to create a new rate group. A "super off-peak" rate that would apply to everyone. This would encourage load shifting for things like charging EV's.
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I would certainly program my vehicles to those hours if it were an option. Currently in ONTARIO On Peak is $0.18 per kwh and off peak is $0.087 per kwh. I'd be ecstatic if there was a super-off peak rate of say $0.03 per kwh.
But then there is the dreaded delivery, global adjust and taxes on those rates. It's still about 1/3 the cost of gasoline per kilometer, however...
But then there is the dreaded delivery, global adjust and taxes on those rates. It's still about 1/3 the cost of gasoline per kilometer, however...
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My Volt is set to charge between 7PM and 7AM using the programmable settings. I use 110V / 12A so if the car is at 0% charge or maybe has a little bit left its done or almost done by 7AM. If the free charging window were 1AM to 5AM then I could see myself upgrading to an L2 charger and setting that timing instead.
Its a wonderful 'idea' but until its implemented its just part of Wynne's Wishlist .... like another of the pledges in there - to remove the HST from sales of EVs! which with the rebate, free charging and removal of HST would almost certainly cause us to replace the old SUV that my wife inherited from me with a Bolt ..... BUT ... a colleague (also a volt driver) has a girlfriend who worked on the draft of this policy and when I was chatting with him yesterday even he is not clear how they hope to implement or achieve it so I am not holding my breath for this to ever see the light of day.
The only logical way is to do a reduced off-peak rate for a small window of overnight hours when electricity often costs us money to export (you can pay other regions to take your excess electricity, or give it free to your people. Which seems like the better option to you?)
Extra meters, hardware, etc. just add cost and complexity to such a scheme and would probably cost more than the electricity itself over the 4 years.
Extra meters, hardware, etc. just add cost and complexity to such a scheme and would probably cost more than the electricity itself over the 4 years.
Indiana (down here in The States) has a program that is about to end in February. It was for the first 250 people who signed up. The program would donate $1500 toward the installation of a 2nd electric meter and a Clipper Creek L2 charger. Then offer free electricity after hours (10pm to 6 am) from the time of installation (my friend's was Oct. 2015) until the end of the program, he told me that it was just announced that it was ending in Feb. 2017. My friend who took advantage of this had to have some trenching done between his house and garage and conduit laid. His out of pocket cost was just a little north of $500. So basically the price of the charger.
The price of the electricity after the program ends is $.07 per Kw.
The main goal was to find out what charging (load) would do to the system. The best time to do this was at night with the excess electricity in the system. Some more benefit was it also promoted EVs in Indiana.
At least that is my understanding. So it is can be done without too much hassle.
Also for Ontario, it seems that there is a 4 year limit on the program based on the comment from Canehdian. Get people hooked then after 4 yrs start charging them. It will also condition people to charge after hours.
The price of the electricity after the program ends is $.07 per Kw.
The main goal was to find out what charging (load) would do to the system. The best time to do this was at night with the excess electricity in the system. Some more benefit was it also promoted EVs in Indiana.
At least that is my understanding. So it is can be done without too much hassle.
Also for Ontario, it seems that there is a 4 year limit on the program based on the comment from Canehdian. Get people hooked then after 4 yrs start charging them. It will also condition people to charge after hours.
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We already pay, and pay quite heavily in Ontario with the highest residential rates in Canada .... so 4 years for free would be a big bonus. There is quite a bit of unrest over rising electricity prices and its likely going to be an election issue for the Premier of the province very soon .... but having said that, even with the yearly increases, the delivery and distribution fees and the removal of certain credits that used to be on the bill it is still cheaper than filling up with gas !
see here:
http://www.hydroquebec.com/publications/en/docs/comparaison-electricity-prices/comp_2015_en.pdf
http://www.tomadamsenergy.com/2016/11/14/ontarios-power-rates-not-the-highest-in-north-america/
I e-mailed the Minister of Energy about this a couple of weeks ago and we are supposed to hear something about this very soon (I presume spring budget?). He did say they are still on track to have this in place by end of year.
I'm not holding my breath but it's good to know they are still thinking about it. I have mine set to charge from 7pm to 7am as well... usually finishes by 5am or so using 120v at 12amp. Getting a L2 next week so if it's only a 4h window I should be good.
I'm not holding my breath but it's good to know they are still thinking about it. I have mine set to charge from 7pm to 7am as well... usually finishes by 5am or so using 120v at 12amp. Getting a L2 next week so if it's only a 4h window I should be good.
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Now I understand why they changed the name from Ontario Hydro...
It is a slow and complicated process to throttle nuclear reactors up and down with demand, which is why it can be more cost effective to give power away for free. Heck, some places will even pay you to use electricity at night so that they can keep the reactors running at minimum power instead of idle.
By comparison, hydroelectric can be dialed up and down with relative ease in only a few minutes. BC's electricity is roughly 95% hydroelectric.
Both nuclear and coal are very slow to throttle and especially to restart a shut-down plant (as in maybe a day or more to restart, so to be avoided). If the region needs to pay to export capacity at night, it definitely makes sense to offer a free period at night. But available to everyone, not just EV owners.
Most non-EV owners can't easily shift much of their use to early morning hours, but most modern automatic dish washing machines have delay settings for this purpose, so a lot of people could at least do that if there were an incentive. And if people wanted to invest in a Powerwall, that would be a good fit. It would also make the program more popular since it would not seem quite so elitist. I think any of this would require installing a smart meter on any home that participated.
Most non-EV owners can't easily shift much of their use to early morning hours, but most modern automatic dish washing machines have delay settings for this purpose, so a lot of people could at least do that if there were an incentive. And if people wanted to invest in a Powerwall, that would be a good fit. It would also make the program more popular since it would not seem quite so elitist. I think any of this would require installing a smart meter on any home that participated.
If you're curious, you can view real time (well, last hour) supply stats @ http://ieso.ca/en/power-data![]()
Now I understand why they changed the name from Ontario Hydro...
Most nights the % gas is <1%, all nuclear, hydro, wind. A much smaller sliver than in your 2012 chart.
Roughly 2/3 nuclear and 1/3 hydro-wind-solar right now.
It would have to be. Any other solution (dedicated meter, JuicePlug type hardware) would probably cost more than the electricity benefit. Better to just offer a 12am-4am super-off-peak (or similar profile) to existing TOU users.
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Ontario's used to be, too, when we had the population of BC.
We're still 90% low-carbon, which is a good showing for an industrial jurisdiction.
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