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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sure we've all heard it before from our grandparents, parents and retired friends saying they can't keep up with rising fuel cost. They say they don't have enough money to buy a new electric vehicle that are costing $25K to $150K these days. They've been using their old vehicle with 70K miles which have been paid off since retirement and was hoping to get another 10 years out of it before it dies or they die.

What is the advantage for a retiree who only drives 10K to 12K miles a year in buying new or even a used electric car?
There is none.
Granted, gasoline is costing them over $2400 a year or $200 a month on their $800-$1000 fixed income. The break even point is still years away even if they could afford to get one.

They feel a squeeze from the government to electrify instead of stepping in to fix the refineries shut down and letting oil companies make record profits again. They're not receiving any benefits from the billions of dollars being poured into the EV charging infrastructure either since they can't take advantage of it.

Unlike Europe, Japan and China with robust mass transit system and much shorter commute, the US is the complete opposite.

What we have is a weak energy policy and a weaker mass transit system. In my town, we have buses that run from day to night with 2 or 3 people riding them. Even if these buses are electrified, it's still an awful waste.

We like to think we'll never grow old and never have to face these issues but we'll all get there. The BEV vs. ICE is just a diversion to a much larger energy and transit crisis. It's like applying a bandage to a broken leg. Let's fix the leg first and get our energy consumption and supply under control.

Please excuse me as I dismount from this high horse. 馃榿
 

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Fuel prices have spiked so quickly that many have not been able to change their behavior. In time, people will adapt. Its not like nobody saw this one coming. Remember hurricane Katrina in 2005? Gas prices shot up very quickly after the Gulf coast refineries went offline. There were stories of abandoned pickup trucks left where they ran out of gas because the owner couldn't handle the $200 fill ups. Line ups at gas stations as frequent price increases were announced. Sound familiar? The Volt was (and still is) a great solution.
I also recall a list published in Popular Mechanics that had a full bus as the most efficient method of people transport. Others on the list were trains, planes and automobiles. The least efficient way to move people...an empty bus.
Maybe this oil price spike is a 'make money while you can' thing...ie: before ICE becomes obsolete.
 

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Fuel prices have spiked so quickly that many have not been able to change their behavior. In time, people will adapt. Its not like nobody saw this one coming. Remember hurricane Katrina in 2005? Gas prices shot up very quickly after the Gulf coast refineries went offline. There were stories of abandoned pickup trucks left where they ran out of gas because the owner couldn't handle the $200 fill ups. Line ups at gas stations as frequent price increases were announced. Sound familiar? The Volt was (and still is) a great solution.
Many people have short memories and fail to plan ahead. I have also lived through the 70's gas shortages/gas lines. This gas price cycle has happened again and again.

When I bought the 2011 Volt gas prices were about $4.25/gal. Based on 2011 to 2022 inflation that would be $5.53/gal today. Huh, whatdoyaknow?

One reason I bought the Volt in 2011 was to de-couple me from that s#*%. Of course, prices eventually dropped, people forgot and bought big trucks and gas hungry cars again. Still, gas prices were relatively low when our second car needed replacing but I bought the Bolt EV. Now that gas has gone up to $5/gallon I'm pretty insulated against oil company greed but many who expected cheap gas forever are up in arms.

Who could have guessed that gas prices might spike up again? /s

Anyway, retired or not, if I needed a car now I'd buy an EV. Time to stop being a gasoline addict.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You're so right on that empty bus. Every time I see one with only a couple of people on it. I'm reminded why my county taxes are so high and why the transit authority keeps asking for more money to keep their empty buses running. Have they not heard of a smaller vehicle?
 

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Well said. I've reiterated this point multiple times on various forums but anybody who's feeling the squeeze from expensive gas has not adequately planned. At the very least everyone should have sourced a used cheap Prius by now. It always was and still is a pretty affordable option. And before the Prius there were plenty of fuel efficient economy cars built in the 80s 90s and early 2000s.
 

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Solar is definitely a strong goal. Having trouble justifying the cost in the short term though. Electricity is and probably will continue to do be cheap for a while in my area (we're part of an energy co-op) the break even period is really quite long with the install cost around here.
 

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Energy independence it is they way to go, but the governments will find a way to get money from you for using it somehow.

Solar, wind, water, battery all affect something in some way and someone will charge you an arm and a leg for the privilege to use it. Electric grids here in the US in the cities you can not disconnect from it The law everywhere I have been you must have electricity or the city will condemn your home. In Denver you can not be "off Grid" you must be connected to the electrical grid and can not exceed a certain amount of production. Batteries for everything I have found seem to be from China. Dependance on other countries for supplies takes you out of the safe spot and vulnerable to loose your savings just to try and keep up. I am glad I have electric vehicle by sheer luck at the moment but I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and what are they going to do to us now.

Heck I was shocked I got charged an extra 150 on my last registration for having the BEV, not sure why and the lackies sitting across from me in the BMV had no clue either. Add to that here in the US the retirement age is now for Social insecurity is 67 years old.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Energy independence it is they way to go, but the governments will find a way to get money from you for using it somehow.

Solar, wind, water, battery all affect something in some way and someone will charge you an arm and a leg for the privilege to use it. Electric grids here in the US in the cities you can not disconnect from it The law everywhere I have been you must have electricity or the city will condemn your home. In Denver you can not be "off Grid" you must be connected to the electrical grid and can not exceed a certain amount of production. Batteries for everything I have found seem to be from China. Dependance on other countries for supplies takes you out of the safe spot and vulnerable to loose your savings just to try and keep up. I am glad I have electric vehicle by sheer luck at the moment but I am waiting for the other shoe to drop and what are they going to do to us now.

Heck I was shocked I got charged an extra 150 on my last registration for having the BEV, not sure why and the lackies sitting across from me in the BMV had no clue either. Add to that here in the US the retirement age is now for Social insecurity is 67 years old.
My state has a $200 surcharge on PHEV and BEV. There's a $100 surcharge on non pluggable hybrid.
When I bought my Volt in February 2021, gas price was $2.70 a gallon and I knew it was just going to climb. I rationalized that I will be saving $360 a month back then by driving a Volt versus my truck. I am now saving just under $700 a month in fuel cost after including charging cost and additional registration fee. I'm just concerned since I've put 40K miles on the car in 16 months. What will this vehicle be like after 170k miles and 3 years from now?
 

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Well if it's any consolation, the Volt has a history of shrugging off mileage while age is a real problem if there is one. But it doesn't much make a difference you would have had to travel the miles anyway most likely. May as well do it in something efficient.
 

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As I've noted many times, an electric vehicle isn't right for everyone. My parents truck is now 17 year old, it's in good condition, has been well maintained, and there's no reason to change it. A low mileage EV isn't going to last 17 years without an obscenely expensive battery replacement.
The interference by the current administration that everything needs to be an EV is lunacy. The attitude from others that some people just need to give up their car and take a bus is elitist snobbery.
 

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Mandated EVs and other governmental interventions into the market will, like all such interventions, disproportionally hurt the poor. Rich people can afford EVs and solar panels. An 18-year old working a fast food job cannot. Before cash for clunkers, a kid working a fast food job could buy a 10-year old car for a few thousand dollars and have reliable transportation. Once EVs are ubiquitous, that will no longer be the case. The 18 year old will be able to buy a 10 year old EV, because they'll be worth very little, but all he'll be buying is the requirement to replace an expensive battery in the near future. This harm will be visited upon the poor so smug rich liberals can feel like they "did something" about a non-existent problem. If you want an EV and solar panels, buy them, but don't mandate their use.
 

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As I've noted many times, an electric vehicle isn't right for everyone. My parents truck is now 17 year old, it's in good condition, has been well maintained, and there's no reason to change it. A low mileage EV isn't going to last 17 years without an obscenely expensive battery replacement.
The interference by the current administration that everything needs to be an EV is lunacy. The attitude from others that some people just need to give up their car and take a bus is elitist snobbery.
You need to understand more about batteries.
They are getting cheaper and more robust - almost by the minute. :)

That replacement battery will likely be 10x cheaper and give better range, so that used car at 17 years will be fantastic if all the other components are good.
So todays push for EVs will create tomorrows used EVs. Win Win.

NOTE: I only buy used cars and have won the battles much more often than lost, saving a boatload of money.
 

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Energy independence it is they way to go, but the governments will find a way to get money from you for using it somehow.

Electric grids here in the US in the cities you can not disconnect from it The law everywhere I have been you must have electricity or the city will condemn your home. In Denver you can not be "off Grid" you must be connected to the electrical grid and can not exceed a certain amount of production.



Heck I was shocked I got charged an extra 150 on my last registration for having the BEV, not sure why and the lackies sitting across from me in the BMV had no clue either. Add to that here in the US the retirement age is now for Social insecurity is 67 years old.
i can see a fight coming on that connection to power
if you have a different power source that falls apart quickly, then that rule only protects the producer

in Canada when the pc got in they upped it to 67 as well
liberals got in and put it back to 65
 

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Mandated EVs and other governmental interventions into the market will, like all such interventions, disproportionally hurt the poor. Rich people can afford EVs and solar panels. An 18-year old working a fast food job cannot. Before cash for clunkers, a kid working a fast food job could buy a 10-year old car for a few thousand dollars and have reliable transportation. Once EVs are ubiquitous, that will no longer be the case. The 18 year old will be able to buy a 10 year old EV, because they'll be worth very little, but all he'll be buying is the requirement to replace an expensive battery in the near future. This harm will be visited upon the poor so smug rich liberals can feel like they "did something" about a non-existent problem. If you want an EV and solar panels, buy them, but don't mandate their use.
There is so much FUD to unpack in your statements.
1- The poor suffer so much by pollution of gas and diesel vehicles, much more than the money cost of EVs.
2- my 19 years old son will be able to buy a used EV in 5 years easily and cheaply. And it will save him money while using it.
3- the biggest LIE!! Climate crisis is real. Get your head out of the sand. My sons will bear the brunt of my stupidity, and of my generation's stupidity.
4- idiot "conservatives" are not conserving. Isn't that stupid? Instead they waste money. Just take health care. We pay 1/2 of health care compared to yours, AND, we don't worry about going broke or not getting services. As I go into my quiet years, I will not have any fears, I know that I will get very good coverage. My in-laws in there 90s do not have any concerns and are well taken care of.
 

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You need to understand more about batteries.
They are getting cheaper and more robust - almost by the minute. :)

That replacement battery will likely be 10x cheaper and give better range, so that used car at 17 years will be fantastic if all the other components are good.
So todays push for EVs will create tomorrows used EVs. Win Win.

NOTE: I only buy used cars and have won the battles much more often than lost, saving a boatload of money.
I've been following the technology for years, have read the research papers, etc. I understand the battery tech perfectly. We are not in the place which you are envisioning today, and the same position which you are putting forth was argued 10 years ago as well. Advancements in battery technology, which are able to be mass produced, are difficult and slow.
 

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That replacement battery will likely be 10x cheaper and give better range, so that used car at 17 years will be fantastic if all the other components are good.
If there is a replacement battery. There's no new replacement batteries for 10-year-old Volts now, only jacked-together parts hand-assembled, probably by cobbler elves moonlighting since nobody repairs shoes anymore. There aren't even new batteries for Gen 2 Volts under warranty, as the best you can hope for is unused old stock that's been untouched in a warehouse for three years. Meaning it's already 20% of the way through its longest likely lifespan.

Ultium will help fix that, but ... you have to buy a new car to get on that train.
 

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I am a retiree who drives very little and bought a used Volt because, since I was 5 years old, I wanted to own an electric car and was afraid that I would die before that happened. It had nothing to do with saving money on gas, though that's a nice perk.

I owned a Insight G1 and Prius-C back when I was commuting, getting high mileage, but that had nothing to do with saving money on gas, either. I simply wanted to own those cars.

Besides, even at today's fuel prices, if I owned a decade-old Chevy getting 25mpg, I'd have to drive 45,000 miles to "break even" on the cost of the Volt, even further once fuel prices drop. That's gonna take longer than the Vot is probably gonna last! Might take longer than I am gonna last, in fact.

Wait a couple years for the price of used cars to drop (because it will) and they'll have their pick of lots of reasonable cars with decent price points. Until then, change the oil on a regular basis and otherwise maintain what you already drive!

P.S. My dad, who didn't have a whole lot of dough, bought a new car in his "old age." When I questioned the financial wisdom of such a move, he said, "just because I'm old doesn't mean I want to drive a sh!t-box like yours!" -- ouch
 

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P.S. My dad, who didn't have a whole lot of dough, bought a new car in his "old age." When I questioned the financial wisdom of such a move, he said, "just because I'm old doesn't mean I want to drive a sh!t-box like yours!" -- ouch
I'm a bit like your dad. Except for a new $2000 VW Beetle, I bought used cars all my life. Kept them running a long time. I decide to buy a new Volt when they came out because I wanted to drive the future, I wanted to stop being an oil junkie, the car excited me and I could use some of the money I saved buying used cars (cash) to finally buy a new car (no loans, no financing). Whenever the stock market drops or melts down like it is now, it reminds me I could have bought a new car with all the money that just evaporated and I'd still have that car鈥攗nlike the stock market dollars that disappeared.
 
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