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That's an interesting claim for China since the Hong Kong government's decision to scrap a tax break for electric vehicles.

And....

Experts acknowledge that in the past the numbers have never quite lived up to the hype around EVs or other alternative transportation technologies. Indeed, in 2016 only 2m electric and hybrid passenger cars were on the road worldwide – about 0.2% of the global fleet; in Europe, significantly less than 1% of new car registrations are battery-electric vehicles (as opposed to hybrid cars). And key questions still loom, such as whether there will be sufficient renewable energy supplies to power vast new fleets of EVs. If electric vehicles are charged with fossil fuel-generated electricity, the result is more, not fewer, greenhouse gas emissions.
From another hype article in the Guardian

Thanks to its lucrative offshore oil and natural gas business, Norway can afford to promote e-mobility with generous incentives, including the considerable bonus of exemption from a 25% sales tax. Norway’s access to abundant and cheap zero-emission hydroelectric power means it can even offer e-car owners free power charging at public charging stations.

Elsewhere in Europe, the main driver for EV growth isn’t subsidies but legislation, explains Wolfgang Bernhart of the international consulting firm Roland Berger, referring to the EU’s mandatory emissions-reduction targets for new cars. By 2021, the average emissions of all new cars sold must be 40% less than what the average car on the road emits today – an extremely ambitious goal that can only be met by the rapid, large-scale adoption of electric vehicles.
Norway promotes while the rest of the EU punishes. It will be interesting to see which one leads in sales per capita.
 

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The article does mention many of the contingencies that can derail PEV adoption, including uninformed sales staff and EVSE difficulties encountered by apartment dwellers and in metro areas. Overall, I think it is fairly well balanced.

KNS
 

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The Guardian article is just fine too. But it's still hype put out by "experts". Problem is, these experts overplayed it up to now.

To me it comes down to affordability. You can't touch any expensive car in Denmark much less an EV unless you're wealthy.

I also read about how outrageous electricity prices are in Germany. While they are increasing solar and wind generation, their cheapest source of power is still brown coal.

I'm really dubious on the whole Paris accord and if any of these countries mean business. Germany as an example is evicting people who live on top of a lignite deposit.

Germany's dirty little coal secret
Germany's reputation as a pioneer of clean, green energy seems a far cry from the reality on the ground in the village of Atterwasch.
 

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more than hype, pure fantasy. they only seem to concentrate on Western world affordability and such; counting developed China at a similar tier; while ignoring the fact that EVs are universally too expensive in most of the Western world so you can imagine what the developing world has for options.

until US/EU can deliver a 300+ mile range EV under 20k without incentives we won't be on the way to any EV dominance. this is still GEN1 tech
 

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more than hype, pure fantasy. they only seem to concentrate on Western world affordability and such; counting developed China at a similar tier; while ignoring the fact that EVs are universally too expensive in most of the Western world so you can imagine what the developing world has for options.

until US/EU can deliver a 300+ mile range EV under 20k without incentives we won't be on the way to any EV dominance. this is still GEN1 tech
I completely agree.

It's time to dump the eco angle and go for the cool factor. My Volt is the coolest car to drive that I've ever had. Say what you will about Musk, he gets that much of it. This is how you sell more expensive cars.

And please Chevy, can we have some better styling?
 

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I read the entire article and found it quite explanatory with many true assertions. But the last statement is very true:
"Which means it is still too soon to write an obituary for the internal combustion engine."

As automobiles has taken over the majority of private transportation in the twentieth century, horses still remain as pets and limited transportation means. So by the end of this twenty-first century, the electric automobile will take over the majority of private and some public transportation but gas powered vehicles will remain where electricity is scarce or impossible to produce. The gas engine will never be eliminated, and horses will still remain, too.
 

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And please Chevy, can we have some better styling?
"Styling is in the eye of the beholder". You are one of the extremely few from the millions of Chevy owners who love their styling (I am one - see my signature). Anyway, why complain about external styling? You don't drive the vehicle from the outside.
 

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I completely agree.

It's time to dump the eco angle and go for the cool factor. My Volt is the coolest car to drive that I've ever had. Say what you will about Musk, he gets that much of it. This is how you sell more expensive cars.

And please Chevy, can we have some better styling?
Forget styling - just don't hire the guy who designed the Pontiac Aztec and BMW i3 (I can't believe there are two people with that bad of taste). I'd rather see the technology be migrated into as many different models as possible. Yes, the results will differ from model to model but it will help all of them.

For EVs and PHEVs to become common the technology needs to be in as many different car, light truck, and SUV lines as possible. Also I know a big turnoff for a lot of people with the early generations of hybrids was the marketing focus on "green". The bottom line is "green" has always been a bad label for environmental efficiency and it invites criticism in the form of inconsistent comparisons to "dirty" technologies to show it's not "green".
 

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Anyway, why complain about external styling? You don't drive the vehicle from the outside.
Raymond, I could write paragraphs. Let me clue you into just one thing. Our Volt is my wife's daily driver. I get to enjoy watching it roll away from the house and return in the evening. I stop what I'm doing just to take it in.

Forget styling - just don't hire the guy who designed the Pontiac Aztec and BMW i3 (I can't believe there are two people with that bad of taste). I'd rather see the technology be migrated into as many different models as possible. Yes, the results will differ from model to model but it will help all of them.
No, you two are right. Make all hybrids and EVs as dorky as possible.



I can't imagine why this car didn't catch on. Let's see, that Honda or this Chevy:



I really don't see any difference. They're just appliances....... NOT!!!

For EVs and PHEVs to become common the technology needs to be in as many different car, light truck, and SUV lines as possible.
Prius while not nearly as, but dorky still, didn't have to have its drivetrain in all Toyotas to catch on.

Also I know a big turnoff for a lot of people with the early generations of hybrids was the marketing focus on "green". The bottom line is "green" has always been a bad label for environmental efficiency and it invites criticism in the form of inconsistent comparisons to "dirty" technologies to show it's not "green".
Advertisers haven't caught on yet. The most oft heard buzzword I hear today is "sustainable". We're so sick of this, especially when it's mostly BS. Here's an example of the green BS I see every week:

http://green.nascar.com/

I'm a NASCAR fan but this is crap. They're racing cars that get 4 or 5 MPG and they're sustainable because they run E15? I'm NOT putting E15 in my car. I used to run E85 in my flex fuel Silverado. It runs much better on E10.
 

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The big problem that I see is it will take huge batteries to make big suv's into an ev that has a 200 mile range. Part of the reason all the ev's are small cars or sedans like the Tesla's is you need an aero shape to be decently efficient. So it's easier to make a small effient car have a decent range.
The physics suggest that an ev is about 3x as effient as an ic engine, but when you are talking less than 20 mpg (like a f150), 3x that is only a 60 mpge. That is roughly 2 m/kWh. To get a 200 mile range a 100kwh battery would be needed. A simple 6 kWh L2 charger may not cut it anymore.
 

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The big problem that I see is it will take huge batteries to make big suv's into an ev that has a 200 mile range. Part of the reason all the ev's are small cars or sedans like the Tesla's is you need an aero shape to be decently efficient. So it's easier to make a small efficient car have a decent range.
Sure, but the "it must be 100% EV" approach is not the only one. The EREV approach used in the Volt is valid as well and addresses the issue well I think.
 

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Sure, but the "it must be 100% EV" approach is not the only one. The EREV approach used in the Volt is valid as well and addresses the issue well I think.
Yup. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And for most people a voltec drivetrain will be used without any gas for the overwhelming majority of their driving.


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Yup. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And for most people a voltec drivetrain will be used without any gas for the overwhelming majority of their driving. I really want GM to roll this out with larger but not huge battery packs into bigger vehicles.


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Yup. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. And for most people a voltec drivetrain will be used without any gas for the overwhelming majority of their driving.


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Only if the manufaturers start putting big batteries in the car unlike all these 10-20 mile ev range pehv's. Personally I think that is bad for the segment and simply window dressing. A car like the volt has real range and can really be an ev most of the time. The new mini is really just a hybrid with a plug for looks and credits.
 

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The big problem that I see is it will take huge batteries to make big suv's into an ev that has a 200 mile range. Part of the reason all the ev's are small cars or sedans like the Tesla's is you need an aero shape to be decently efficient. So it's easier to make a small effient car have a decent range.
The physics suggest that an ev is about 3x as effient as an ic engine, but when you are talking less than 20 mpg (like a f150), 3x that is only a 60 mpge. That is roughly 2 m/kWh. To get a 200 mile range a 100kwh battery would be needed. A simple 6 kWh L2 charger may not cut it anymore.
Teslas aren't exactly the most efficient. From the numbers I've seen, electric motors are closer to four times more efficient than ICE on average. The ideal would be some sort of Atkinson cycle engine, such as the one found in the Toyota Prius, which can be as much as 36-37% efficient at converting potential chemical energy. However, the vast majority of ICE are only about 20% efficient. Further, electric motors maintain their efficiency advantage over a wider range of driving conditions. Also, due to the mechanical requirements, ICE vehicles tend to have far worse aerodynamics than an equivalent EV. Finally, ICE vehicles suffer far more mechanical losses due to clutches, gearboxes, etc.

While I'll admit that range extenders are a good option for heavy duty trucks, I'm not convinced that those range extenders need to be ICE. Fuel cells might be a much better option for a number of reasons. As was already mentioned, ICE are not very efficient, and even basic NG/LPG fuel cells have as high as 80% efficiency, and they can run off of the same pressure flows as the gas lines into your home.

Regardless, based on what I've seen so far with the Bolt EV, I'd be surprised if a small truck or SUV saw less than 3 mi/kWh in normal driving. That would be 180 miles of range out of a 60 kWh battery pack. Given the size and mass constraints of current battery technology, I would say that the reasonable cutoff point at which increased capacity isn't justifiable is ~120 kWh. Two Bolt EV battery packs would easily fit under a 1/2 to 3/4 ton pickup, and that would result in over 120 kWh of usable capacity with a total weight of about 1,800 lbs. Even if your 2 mi/kWh estimate was right (and I think it is unreasonably low), you'd see 240 miles of range out of a charge. DC fast charging would make it usable even for long trips. If it was as inefficient as you predict (again, unlikely), the current L2 probably wouldn't be reasonable. That is why Tesla provides an 80 A L2 charging option.
 

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While I'll admit that range extenders are a good option for heavy duty trucks, I'm not convinced that those range extenders need to be ICE.
Right, EREV's are a general concept. Besides the battery, the secondary powerplant could be based on gasoline, LP, diesel, FC, Flintstone pedals, etc. :)
 

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Right. A lighter, simpler range extender than an ice would be great for larger vehicles.


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A 120 kWh pack at 1600 lbs would work in my van as the current engine is ~3000lbs and it weighs in at 6500 lbs empty. So the weight works, let's see about range.
As my van currently gets 18 mpg at highway speeds and has a range of 630 miles. When towing I can get 14. So even if it is 4 times as effiecient, it would only get 2.2 miles per kWh and towing 1.75. I would say these numbers are optimistic as most of my driving is highway speeds, so 65-80 mph, which is not effiecient for an Ev. So a 265 mile range at best. so to do a typical race weekend which is 800 miles of driving I would have to charge 4 times to complete the trip or once for a trip to the mountains. Using the current 50kw dc fast chargers is would take 3 hrs to charge or 12 hrs of charging to make my 800 mile trip. Going to need some upgraded charge infrastructure to make it viable.
With that said, I like my bolt and am going to do a 270 mile trip in it tomorrow. While longish distance travel works with smaller more efficient ev's I think we need another breakthrough in battery tech to make it work for all vehicles. The reality is that gas and diesel contain large amounts of energy. Electricity is hard to store in high quantities and our current grid isn't designed to deliver high quantities of power in short periods of time as required for charging large batteries quickly. The more I live with an ev the more I see the limits of our current conditions.

I think it's close to 3 X ev vs ic. Look at the mpg vs mpge for the volt. As the volt gets 40 and the mpge is not 160. It's just over 100, which isn't even 3x.
 

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A 120 kWh pack at 1600 lbs would work in my van as the current engine is ~3000lbs and it weighs in at 6500 lbs empty. So the weight works, let's see about range.
As my van currently gets 18 mpg at highway speeds and has a range of 630 miles. When towing I can get 14. So even if it is 4 times as effiecient, it would only get 2.2 miles per kWh and towing 1.75. I would say these numbers are optimistic as most of my driving is highway speeds, so 65-80 mph, which is not effiecient for an Ev. So a 265 mile range at best. so to do a typical race weekend which is 800 miles of driving I would have to charge 4 times to complete the trip or once for a trip to the mountains. Using the current 50kw dc fast chargers is would take 3 hrs to charge or 12 hrs of charging to make my 800 mile trip. Going to need some upgraded charge infrastructure to make it viable.
With that said, I like my bolt and am going to do a 270 mile trip in it tomorrow. While longish distance travel works with smaller more efficient ev's I think we need another breakthrough in battery tech to make it work for all vehicles.
That's not bad considering you are manufacturing numbers to make it not work. By the time 120 kWh batteries are available in any non-Tesla EV, 300 kW to 400 kW chargers will be available (and widespread). You do your race weekends. Where do you end up? Do you sleep in a motel/hotel? An RV park or improved campground? Chances are, you recharge while you're sleeping and racing. So it's 400 miles each way? At worst, you'll stop maybe three times for charging during your entire trip. Again, with 300 kW to 400 kW chargers, your stops would be 30 minutes at most.

I think it's close to 3 X ev vs ic. Look at the mpg vs mpge for the volt. As the volt gets 40 and the mpge is not 160. It's just over 100, which isn't even 3x.
The Volt has one of the most efficient ICEs available (roughly 34% if memory serves), so the slightly less than three times the efficiency applies. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the ICE in the Volt is twice as efficient as the ICE in your van under normal driving conditions.
 
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