[!arry4pyro]

This very interesting documentary on where we're at in battery technology was shown on my local PBS station last night. If you haven't seen it, I highy recommend it.

http://www.pbs.org/video/2365946487/

Or via YT

 

[Loboc]

Very cool. A good compendium of all technologies out there especially for grid storage.

 

[canehdian]

Not available to stream to Canada
But looks like it's on WNED again tonight at midnight. I'll have to check it out.

 

[AtomicPowered]

Long, negative segment on lithium-ion battery fires. No mention that gasoline is the favorite of arsonists. Otherwise a good program.

 

[srmarti]

Long, negative segment on lithium

They didn't mention anything about burning natural gas or hydrogen either. It's not a program about what's inflammable. It's a program about batteries.

 

[Sheldon]

This very interesting documentary on where we're at in battery technology was shown on my local PBS station last night. If you haven't seen it, I highy recommend it.

http://www.pbs.org/video/2365946487/

I saw the show last night. David Pogue narrated the show. They showed these "plastic" lithium polymer?? ion batteries with 2x density and no fire hazard. I hope the 2x energy density really holds up. The biggest problem with Voltec like designs is the volume taken up by the Lithium ion battery. The plastic lithium ion batteries were really cool! David Pogue had a great time hammering nails into the battery and cutting it apart, all while the battery kept powering an ipad, and without any hint of fire hazard.

 

[AZ EV Driver]

Long, negative segment on lithium-ion battery fires. No mention that gasoline is the favorite of arsonists. Otherwise a good program.

Yes it was a good program. The "negative segment" (but relatively accurate segment) is what have many skeptics rightfully concerned. You only have to look to Samsung phones, "hover boards", Boeing airplanes, Sony laptops, and yes even some events with Tesla vehicles to see the issues. On the other hand, nearly all users of ICE powered vehicle have become comfortable with the risk associated with gasoline - even though that confidence should not be supported in the wrong circumstances. New technology always get the most scrutiny. Over the holidays I had an opportunity to discuss the difference between poorly designed battery systems (see my list above) and well designed battery systems like the Volt & Bolt managed cooling systems with some of my elderly (Fox News watcher) friends. Hopefully I won some converts or at least open some eyes.

BTW, I'm an elderly old SOB engineer myself, but I believe new technology will ultimately save our bacon in the long run. It has to, or we as a society are in real trouble.

VIN # B0985

 

[Dakster]

I'm glad that there are folks out there testing batteries. Just because an ICE car can (and do) explode, doesn't mean that replacing it with something that can still explode is good either. That plastic battery looks promising. I'd like to see it dunked in water though since he is using a lithium cathode. Having said that, I like the "Salt Water" battery, assuming it really is a lot cheaper than AGM for off grid PV applications. My garage floor (or shed outside) doesn't care if the battery is light or not. My wallet cares about the cost.

I also wish he would have been able to look at graphene batteries as those were supposed to be half the weight and double the density as well. Overall, I liked the program on the search for the super battery.

Imagine a bolt with 120 KWH or a Volt with double the range, changing nothing but the battery pack.

 

[31E20]

Many thanks for the link ! I just got my Silver Ice 2017 Volt LT last Tuesday Jan 31, 2017

 

[ampera_jed]

It's not the physical damage that causes fires in a battery, it is the electrochemistry in the electrodes.

Consider that in a typical chemistry you have lithium ions plus a metal oxide. Ever heard of a thermite reaction? That's what you get if the electro-potentials go wrong.

Lithium iron phoshate batteries are much safer because the oxygen is locked up in the phosphate radical, and can't enter a thermite reaction. Use Manganese oxide (or most other transition metal oxides) in the mix, and the lithium will try to steal the oxygen off the manganese, at the 'right' [wrong] electro-potentials. Titanates are much more stable, but both titanates and phosphate based lithium batteries have significantly lower specific capacity.

For all we know that might have been what happened in the infamous post-crash-test Volt. Perhaps it was physically damaged, but did not experience that sort of reaction until the cell voltage dropped to the 'dangerous' level.

 

[canehdian]

I also wish he would have been able to look at graphene batteries as those were supposed to be half the weight and double the density as well.

I forget who said it, but it's absolutely true with the countless breakthroughs announced around graphene in the last 5-10 years:
Graphene, it can do anything - except get out of the lab.

 

[hellsop]

I forget who said it, but it's absolutely true with the countless breakthroughs announced around graphene in the last 5-10 years:
Graphene, it can do anything - except get out of the lab.

I've long had the philosophy that anything that I can't buy may as well not exist. There's no point in waiting around for something that doesn't have a ship date.

 

[ampera_jed]

I've long had the philosophy that anything that I can't buy may as well not exist. There's no point in waiting around for something that doesn't have a ship date.

Fortunately for you, not everyone thinks that way. There is a contingent of engineers and scientists who do the thinking and give you the technologies you can enjoy in the future.

 

[Neromanceres]

Darn it's location specific. Can't view it in Canada.

 

[2VoltFamily]

This was started on another thread. I was most interested in the polymer Lithium metal battery.

 

[Steverino]

Thanks, 2VoltFamily! Threads merged.