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No pretty graphs or charts, just some real world data... (not saying the "V" word)

The first week in may I made a trip from Clinton Indiana to Berea Kentucky in my 2011 CPO volt with non-lrr tires running 44 psi cold inflation pressure. Total miles for this trip was 311 miles with the first 36 as EV miles. The first 20 EV miles were at 30 to 40 mph and the remaining 16 were at 70 mph. Virtually the entire remainder of the trip (all the gasoline miles) were at 70 mph on the highway with just a few slow downs lasting less than 10 min total at slower speeds. So driving 275 miles on gasoline at 70 mph I got 39.61 mpg. Add in the EV miles and that brings me up to 44.8 mpg.

I re-did this trip today, same car same tires and tire pressure. Temperatures were a bit warmer at the start, but I started in late afternoon and it cooled off nicely as the drive progressed. I did a slightly different route at the start, so Total trip length was 321 miles with 34 of those being "true EV" miles. The route was about 15 miles of EV at 55 mph, 5 miles at 30 to 40 mph, and the remaining 14 EV miles were on the highway at 70 mph. Once again the rest of the trip was all highway at 70 mph with only a few slow downs. After initially draining the battery I went into Mountain Mode for 10 miles and checked how far I could get on the charge it gave me... I got a bit under 3 miles. So then I did MM for 30 miles and when I switched to normal I was able to drive 12 miles... but part of that was during one of the few slow downs on the drive where I was doing 60 mph instead of 70 mph. Subsequent experimentation showed that 25 miles of MM would give me between 9 and 9.5 miles of battery range and 30 miles of MM would give me 10 to 11 miles of battery range.

I continued this experiment for the entire 321 miles of the trip. So, doing this for 321 miles resulted in 38.63 mpg when running the gasoline engine to provide power, and if you add in the miles driven on grid power that climbs to 44.38 this includes factoring in arriving at my destination fuel stop with 3 miles of battery range derived from running the gasoline generator.

In other words, I gave it a fair shot over a long range trip that I had done all in "normal" mode, and statistically the difference in mileage is insignificantly lower using MM to charge up the battery pack.

I found the experience boring and repetitive with my attention being distracted from driving to pay attention to the Odometer and the power flow screen. The gas engine running in MM mode on the highway is significantly louder than when running in normal mode after the battery is depleted. In normal mode at 70 mph the engine noise is lost in tire and wind noise.

So the idea that you can "enjoy hundreds of miles of silent EV running" by using MM is also debunked. I can run thousands of miles in almost silent "normal" mode, or run 30 miles with a loud engine followed by 10 miles of silent running.

If you ignore the facts and divide up the trip like a certain other person who posted here I did somewhere between 100 and 110 EV miles today on a single charge!!! OMG!!! isn't life wonderful!!!! Looking at the real fuel economy based on the amount of fuel burned and distance traveled we all know this is silly of course.

These are my real world experiences giving it a fair shot and actually trying to make it work.

Your mileage may vary (LOL),

Keith
 

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I think I hear LL coming down the hallway....... :rolleyes:
Thanks fourdoor. I've stopped trying to use the V-word-that-shall-not-be-named because of all the indisputable facts that it just doesn't work...at least not for me in flat Illinois. I think the killer is driving 70 mph. If you drive 60 mph instead, MM does charge the battery faster as less is going towards propulsion. but I've still not wasn't able to get a mile charged for every mile or two driven in MM.
 

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Facts will always be able to dispute that insane thread. I still chuckle about it sometimes when I put my Volt in Hold Mode and see Mountain Mode in the menu for when I drive over 35 miles. It's as if the dude was performing a social experiment with convincing charts and graphics, with an authoritatively long-winded explanation of detailed crap. He actually got some people to believe it, plenty of people to question it, but several of us called out his BS right off the bat.

I wonder if we haven't heard from him since "thread-mageddon" because he's driving back and forth across those same 183 miles just to see HOW he can get a few more miles. We need to be prepared for him to pop back in here with some crazy new charts and "data" that shows a one-time-gain of maybe 2.2MPG doing "the technique that shall not be named."

He did say he was "in talks" with some ECU programmers to "harness" this new discovery and make the switching back and forth automatic. I'd rather put wind generators on my hood to gain extra EV miles :p
 

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May we all be spared from being exposed to any more of his charts and graphs. *puke*
 

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Facts will always be able to dispute that insane thread. I still chuckle about it sometimes when I put my Volt in Hold Mode and see Mountain Mode in the menu for when I drive over 35 miles. It's as if the dude was performing a social experiment with convincing charts and graphics, with an authoritatively long-winded explanation of detailed crap. He actually got some people to believe it, plenty of people to question it, but several of us called out his BS right off the bat.

I wonder if we haven't heard from him since "thread-mageddon" because he's driving back and forth across those same 183 miles just to see HOW he can get a few more miles. We need to be prepared for him to pop back in here with some crazy new charts and "data" that shows a one-time-gain of maybe 2.2MPG doing "the technique that shall not be named."

He did say he was "in talks" with some ECU programmers to "harness" this new discovery and make the switching back and forth automatic. I'd rather put wind generators on my hood to gain extra EV miles :p
Wind generators to gain EV miles has already been done

https://youtu.be/bkcn8ZkvKKc

Though I'd love to see a charge mode hack that allows you to slowly charge up your battery to full say over a 50 mile drive. You wouldn't actually gain any range or mpg doing this, but to be able to arrive with a full charge at the end of a long highway run would be useful.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Facts will always be able to dispute that insane thread. I still chuckle about it sometimes when I put my Volt in Hold Mode and see Mountain Mode in the menu for when I drive over 35 miles. It's as if the dude was performing a social experiment with convincing charts and graphics, with an authoritatively long-winded explanation of detailed crap. He actually got some people to believe it, plenty of people to question it, but several of us called out his BS right off the bat.
I was one of the meanest to him calling out the BS... but I am a firm believer in the scientific method and decided that when I had the chance I would accept the fact that I am not infallible and give it a try in case I was wrong.

He did say he was "in talks" with some ECU programmers to "harness" this new discovery and make the switching back and forth automatic. I'd rather put wind generators on my hood to gain extra EV miles :p
The best part is that statement is that the Volt already does it when conditions are right. If you drive in Hold (for late 2012 and newer) or after the battery is depleted at 60 mph and less the gasoline engine cycles on and off. Even at low revs it makes more power than it needs to to push the car down the road... the engine runs for about 2 miles and shuts off for one mile on average. GM engineers are not dumb. Empirically it is obvious that you are not going to gain mileage by doing manually something the car is already doing automatically (V at 60 and lower is automatic), that is why I tried it at 70 mph.

Keith
 

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So the idea that you can "enjoy hundreds of miles of silent EV running" by using MM is also debunked. I can run thousands of miles in almost silent "normal" mode, or run 30 miles with a loud engine followed by 10 miles of silent running.
Using Mountain Mode as you describe, you'd be correct. However, it wasn't designed to work that way. It was designed to be engaged and left on, simply to maintain a higher SOC in the battery. A buffer of energy in case you get into a energy demanding situation where you are depleting energy faster than it's possible for the genset to replace that energy. If you engage MM before the battery is depleted below this higher SOC level the engine will come on and operate quietly just like it does in normal mode. If you engage it below it's setpoint, then it will rev higher for a while until it builds the battery up to it's setpoint, then it'll settle down and run normally for the rest of the trip. When using MM I just switch it on and leave it on.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Using Mountain Mode as you describe, you'd be correct. However, it wasn't designed to work that way. It was designed to be engaged and left on, simply to maintain a higher SOC in the battery. A buffer of energy in case you get into a energy demanding situation where you are depleting energy faster than it's possible for the genset to replace that energy. If you engage MM before the battery is depleted below this higher SOC level the engine will come on and operate quietly just like it does in normal mode. If you engage it below it's setpoint, then it will rev higher for a while until it builds the battery up to it's setpoint, then it'll settle down and run normally for the rest of the trip. When using MM I just switch it on and leave it on.
Sure, hopefully everyone knows this but good to have it pointed out in case someone is not aware of how MM is supposed to work when someone isn't trying to game the system.

Keith
 

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I was one of the meanest to him calling out the BS... but I am a firm believer in the scientific method and decided that when I had the chance I would accept the fact that I am not infallible and give it a try in case I was wrong.
It's unfortunate that anyone felt the need to be mean about it. Curious though, you chose to try it after being mean?

IMO the guy was misguided, mostly by his need to be the center of attention. That doesn't make him a bad person. A bit of a nuisance maybe, but I just skipped reading it.

Sure, hopefully everyone knows this but good to have it pointed out in case someone is not aware of how MM is supposed to work when someone isn't trying to game the system.
People trying to game the system is as unavoidable as people rehashing what happened with the V word. We even lampooned it last April 1. Jeez, I hope that wasn't seen as being mean.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's unfortunate that anyone felt the need to be mean about it. Curious though, you chose to try it after being mean?

IMO the guy was misguided, mostly by his need to be the center of attention. That doesn't make him a bad person. A bit of a nuisance maybe, but I just skipped reading it.



People trying to game the system is as unavoidable as people rehashing what happened with the V word. We even lampooned it last April 1. Jeez, I hope that wasn't seen as being mean.
I was mean when he would repeatedly post up silly charts and graphs and call them evidence without providing any data at all about actual fuel usage.

I was cool with him for about a page... but after repeated requests for data, and repeated admonishments from him that I just wasn't understanding his pretty charts and how they proved he was right I started to get mean. Lack of data doesn't prove someone wrong but it does show that they are either delusional or trying to hide something. I chose to provide my own data to see if he was right AND delusional rather than being one or the other :)

Keith
 

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I was mean when he would repeatedly post up silly charts and graphs and call them evidence without providing any data at all about actual fuel usage.

I was cool with him for about a page... but after repeated requests for data, and repeated admonishments from him that I just wasn't understanding his pretty charts and how they proved he was right I started to get mean. Lack of data doesn't prove someone wrong but it does show that they are either delusional or trying to hide something. I chose to provide my own data to see if he was right AND delusional rather than being one or the other :)

Keith
I didn't have any issue with him being wrong, or ignorant. I had a problem when he started fighting and calling people trolls, but it was his problem - not mine. I had assumed it wasn't without some provocation, but I wasn't playing referee so I really don't know.

When someone called his wife a dog, I knew it had gone too far. That was just not called for. I never saw the post but I sure heard about it.

P.S. I appreciate your being honest about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I didn't have any issue with him being wrong, or ignorant. I had a problem when he started fighting and calling people trolls, but it was his problem - not mine. I had assumed it wasn't without some provocation, but I wasn't playing referee so I really don't know.

When someone called his wife a dog, I knew it had gone too far. That was just not called for. I never saw the post but I sure heard about it.

P.S. I appreciate your being honest about it.
I never got into personal attacks or anything like that... I just got sarcastic about his charts and how "meaningful" they were to me as works of art, and meaningless as "prof" of his claims. Things like that.

I also pointed out that after being told by administrators to stop posting links to his web site he had the web address prominently on display on every chart. I almost think he was not crazy and this was some kind of troll marketing ploy to get clicks to that web page.

I have never felt the need to stoop to name calling or denigrating someones family.

Keith
 

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I also pointed out that after being told by administrators to stop posting links to his web site he had the web address prominently on display on every chart. I almost think he was not crazy and this was some kind of troll marketing ploy to get clicks to that web page.
A lack of self promotion was never one of his weaknesses. ;)
 
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