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Discussion Starter #1
A review published by Business Insider (calls the Bolt a "masterpiece", btw :cool: ). Looked like more of the same stuff we've already seen, just recycled, but this line caught my eye:

"The hatch can swallow a decent amount of cargo, enough for a weekend jaunt and is more than adequate for suburban grocery shopping duty. A family of four will stretch the Bolt's capabilities, and a family of five will probably need a bigger set of wheels. However, GM has said the next addition to the Bolt lineup will be larger."

So.....what does this mean? A true all-electric CUV/SUV? Or maybe an all-electric mid-sized sedan (like the Malibu)?

GM has created an all-electric masterpiece with the Chevy Bolt
 

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Or, my choice: an XT4. Mary said a while back that there are more vehicles based on Bolt in the pipeline.
 

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Experts predict GM will reach their 200,000 EV phase out point next year. As such, it would make sense to bring out as man EVs as possible at that point as the tax credit will begin to diminish but there is no longer a cap on the numbers of EVs that qualify. I expect to see a flood of electrified vehicles derived from both the Bolt and the Volt in 2018.
 

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Experts predict GM will reach their 200,000 EV phase out point next year. As such, it would make sense to bring out as man EVs as possible at that point as the tax credit will begin to diminish but there is no longer a cap on the numbers of EVs that qualify. I expect to see a flood of electrified vehicles derived from both the Bolt and the Volt in 2018.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind the tax credit going away (once the first few manufacturers hit the 200k mark, mainly Tesla, GM, and Nissan). Why let the laggards (FCA, Toyota, Daimler, Honda, etc..) get rewarded for basically sitting out of the EV game for the last decade while the manufacturers that actually have made an effort to produce EVs are suddenly handicapped by $7,500.
 

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Honestly, I wouldn't mind the tax credit going away (once the first few manufacturers hit the 200k mark, mainly Tesla, GM, and Nissan). Why let the laggards (FCA, Toyota, Daimler, Honda, etc..) get rewarded for basically sitting out of the EV game for the last decade while the manufacturers that actually have made an effort to produce EVs are suddenly handicapped by $7,500.
^^^This, in spades! The tax credit should be "Trumped" when GM and Tesla run their allotments out. The tax money gained should be invested in our country's infrastructure.
 

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To sell Bolt's a dealership needs to pay tens of thousands of dollars to install a DCFC charger so if the next EV is a Buick or Caddy, Chevy dealers will be upset...

China is the number one vehicle market on the planet and is leading the EV movement; they apparently love the Buick brand (heck they literally took a Volt and rebadged it to a Buick)...I believe a Buick EV in the States would also work because its badge is little more prestigious for those who are image conscience and you'll receive an overall better perceived sales and service compared to a Chevy dealership...

Caddy while great for the States isn't as popular in China...

Next is the actual model, will it be all new or to keep costs down, will it be based off an existing ICE model? GM took its smallest vehicle, the Spark and EVed it, it tried to do the same with the Sonic but evolved into a new platform which will be used for the Gen2 ICE Sonic...The Trax is the next smallest vehicle and is actually based on the Sonic's platform...It's also been around since 2013 so a new generation is coming anyways...So my WAG is it'll be a Gen2 Trax here in States to keep the DCFC purchasing dealerships happy and like the Velite, rebadged as a Buick in China...Fingers crossed I'm wrong and it will be something larger like the AWD Equinox...
 

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^^^This, in spades! The tax credit should be "Trumped" when GM and Tesla run their allotments out. The tax money gained should be invested in our country's infrastructure.
Many believe (even pre-Trump) that this is exactly what will happen, i.e. the credit will sunset for everyone when the first auto manufacturer hits 200,000. But nothing's set in stone.
 

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To sell Bolt's a dealership needs to pay tens of thousands of dollars to install a DCFC charger so if the next EV is a Buick or Caddy, Chevy dealers will be upset...
Is it really a "requirement" or is it one of those "don't ask/don't tell" things?

The dealership where I initially test drove the Bolt only had a L2 EVSE that they have had for a few years because of the Volt.

The dealership where I ended up purchasing my Bolt only had L2 EVSE too.
 

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To sell Bolt's a dealership needs to pay tens of thousands of dollars to install a DCFC charger so if the next EV is a Buick or Caddy, Chevy dealers will be upset...

China is the number one vehicle market on the planet and is leading the EV movement; they apparently love the Buick brand (heck they literally took a Volt and rebadged it to a Buick)...I believe a Buick EV in the States would also work because its badge is little more prestigious for those who are image conscience and you'll receive an overall better perceived sales and service compared to a Chevy dealership...

Caddy while great for the States isn't as popular in China...
Cadillac is not great in the USA. They aren't even back where they were before the recession, while other premium brands are increasing sales. Audi overtook Cadillac in 2014.
If you want some idea, here are 2016's US sales numbers:
Daimler 374,540
Lexus 331, 228
BMW 313,174
Audi 210,213
Cadillac 170,006
Acura 161.360
Infiniti 138.293
Lincoln 111.724 (Lincoln might actually be picking up, but that's from a _really_ horrible level of sales)

Buick also nowhere near where it was, but sales have been creeping up and recovery might have been hampered by a market shift that would shift some sales to "Truck Buick" GMC.

Buick is actively trying to remove the old-person image and target a younger audience, while Cadillac seems to be intent on marketing a more ostentatious kind of muscle and luxury. So unless Unless Cadillac wants to do a major marketing shift, or unless the new BEV is directly aimed at Tesla, I think that a BEV Buick would be a much better fit.
 

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I agree with Bro and JBaker. Once GM, Tesla and Nissan get their credit cut in half, it is time for the credit to be phased out. Why reward the laggards? But they should have as much warning as possible. In fact, I think that congress should mandate that everyone gets their credits cut in half when the second company sees their credits cut in half.
So GM and Tesla sell 200k cars and continue to get the full credit for 3 to 6 month on an unlimited amount of sales. Which would be a great time for GM to deliver a larger BEV on the Bolt platform because Tesla is going to be selling A TON of Model 3's when they are at this point. Then the credit should be cut in half FOR EVERYONE, not just Tesla and GM, for the next 6 months. Then cut it in half again for the final 6 months and sunset the credit entirely for every car maker.
The credit has done its job. There is a viable electric car industry here in the US and the credit is the reason it happened when it did.


Honestly, I wouldn't mind the tax credit going away (once the first few manufacturers hit the 200k mark, mainly Tesla, GM, and Nissan). Why let the laggards (FCA, Toyota, Daimler, Honda, etc..) get rewarded for basically sitting out of the EV game for the last decade while the manufacturers that actually have made an effort to produce EVs are suddenly handicapped by $7,500.
 

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Is it really a "requirement" or is it one of those "don't ask/don't tell" things?

The dealership where I initially test drove the Bolt only had a L2 EVSE that they have had for a few years because of the Volt.

The dealership where I ended up purchasing my Bolt only had L2 EVSE too.
Very good question, would also be a fun job to be the DCFC verifier if such a job existed...lol

Cadillac is not great in the USA. They aren't even back where they were before the recession, while other premium brands are increasing sales. Audi overtook Cadillac in 2014.
If you want some idea, here are 2016's US sales numbers:
Daimler 374,540
Lexus 331, 228
BMW 313,174
Audi 210,213
Cadillac 170,006
Acura 161.360
Infiniti 138.293
Lincoln 111.724 (Lincoln might actually be picking up, but that's from a _really_ horrible level of sales)

Buick also nowhere near where it was, but sales have been creeping up and recovery might have been hampered by a market shift that would shift some sales to "Truck Buick" GMC.

Buick is actively trying to remove the old-person image and target a younger audience, while Cadillac seems to be intent on marketing a more ostentatious kind of muscle and luxury. So unless Unless Cadillac wants to do a major marketing shift, or unless the new BEV is directly aimed at Tesla, I think that a BEV Buick would be a much better fit.
Good point with Caddy, one of the reasons why MBs/BMWs "sales" are so high is there are multiple reports like 55% lease luxury vehicles and they lease really well...Even when Caddy has a good lease, folks would rather pay the same rate and be seen in a German vehicle...Ironically Buick consistently has some great lease deals...

I agree with Bro and JBaker. Once GM, Tesla and Nissan get their credit cut in half, it is time for the credit to be phased out. Why reward the laggards? But they should have as much warning as possible. In fact, I think that congress should mandate that everyone gets their credits cut in half when the second company sees their credits cut in half.
So GM and Tesla sell 200k cars and continue to get the full credit for 3 to 6 month on an unlimited amount of sales. Which would be a great time for GM to deliver a larger BEV on the Bolt platform because Tesla is going to be selling A TON of Model 3's when they are at this point. Then the credit should be cut in half FOR EVERYONE, not just Tesla and GM, for the next 6 months. Then cut it in half again for the final 6 months and sunset the credit entirely for every car maker.
The credit has done its job. There is a viable electric car industry here in the US and the credit is the reason it happened when it did.
Tax credit would be fairly hard to eliminate but could be greatly scaled back...If the end goal is to increase EV mass adoption, the tax credit is needed...Better late than never...
 

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Or, my choice: an XT4. Mary said a while back that there are more vehicles based on Bolt in the pipeline.
If the XT4 is based on the D2XX platform then it's possible it would have a Voltec drive train. That wouldn't be a bad thing. The current Equinox has ten more cubic feet of cargo room and and ten more cubic feet of passenger space than the Volt. Range would be less but for longer trips the extra space can be a winner.

Cadillac is not great in the USA. They aren't even back where they were before the recession, while other premium brands are increasing sales
Too many sedans, not enough CUVs and SUVs. The XT5 outsold all Cadillac sedans combined last month. The market is moving away from sedans and that's what Cadillac has.
 

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^^^This, in spades! The tax credit should be "Trumped" when GM and Tesla run their allotments out. The tax money gained should be invested in our country's infrastructure.
No the tax money not returned to taxpayers should be used to help cover the nation's huge deficit. It should not be considered as "found" money that congress needs to find a place to spend. Just because they can print money doesn't mean they should spend as if the coffers are endless.
 

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Too many sedans, not enough CUVs and SUVs. The XT5 outsold all Cadillac sedans combined last month. The market is moving away from sedans and that's what Cadillac has.
XT5? Escalade? ATS Coupe? ESV? ATS-V Coupe?
 

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2500HD Silverado... >_>


In all seriousness, I think it will be the Malibu platform. They've already made an effective hybrid using that platform, and it would be the next logical step if they want to keep costs down and mass-market appeal high. The truth is, they don't really need to change anything from the powertrain of the Bolt EV. At most, I would say they should up the usable battery capacity to 80 kWh so that they can threaten Tesla's current "longest range EV" title.
 

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Honestly, I wouldn't mind the tax credit going away (once the first few manufacturers hit the 200k mark, mainly Tesla, GM, and Nissan). Why let the laggards (FCA, Toyota, Daimler, Honda, etc..) get rewarded for basically sitting out of the EV game for the last decade while the manufacturers that actually have made an effort to produce EVs are suddenly handicapped by $7,500.
And the laggards fail to accumulate patents. I doubt GM is going to pass out free patent licenses.

^^^This, in spades! The tax credit should be "Trumped" when GM and Tesla run their allotments out. The tax money gained should be invested in our country's infrastructure.
If by "Trumped" you mean a rule change that bumps it to $10K after the first 200K sold, then you're talking real incentive.

I agree with Bro and JBaker. Once GM, Tesla and Nissan get their credit cut in half, it is time for the credit to be phased out. Why reward the laggards? But they should have as much warning as possible. In fact, I think that congress should mandate that everyone gets their credits cut in half when the second company sees their credits cut in half.
Think additive, not subtractive. See reply above.
 

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If by "Trumped" you mean a rule change that bumps it to $10K after the first 200K sold, then you're talking real incentive.
May I suggest that a real incentive - for buying - would be turning that $10K into a rebate at POS, thus eliminating the need to have the full tax liability and the hassle of dealing with the IRS. For leasing, it shouldn't be a concern (unless the leasing company decides to be stingy with how much they allow toward cap reduction). That would stimulate sales!!

...says the guy who lives in a state without EV incentives...

Joe
 
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