GM Volt Forum banner
1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just looking over the new Ford C-Max. (Coming this fall). It is a Crossover vehicle. It will come in two versions: The less expensive version will be a conventional hybrid. It uses an Atkinson cycle engine. The second version will be a Plugin Hybrid similar to Volt. They claim the plugin version will have a 500 mile total range. (That's 125 miles more than our Volt's.) They also claim it will have higher MPGe than our Volt's. It's a nice looking vehicle as well.

You can see the web site here:
http://www.ford.com/cars/cmax/2013/

You can see a video interview about it here:

http://www.technobuffalo.com/news/cars/2013-ford-c-max-energi-hybrid-first-look-video/

I think it's good to see another major player entering into the plugin hybrid game. It looks like a very nice vehicle. I think a Plugin Crossover is welcome addition the market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
I'm intrigued by the C-Max Energi. It's great seeing the competition start. It just means that GM has a winning product with the Volt. Being a five seat extended range electric I think would be a big selling point. The 4 seats with my Volt is ok for me but there have been times when a 5th would of been of use. The 500 mile range sounds nice. Though I wonder if they are getting that extra 125 mile with just a bigger gasoline tank.

My lease for the Volt will be up in Feb 2014. I'll be shopping around for a new vehicle. 1st on the list will be no doubt another Volt but if the Energi has a 40 mile electric range and get's stellar reviews like the Volt, I may have to look at it seriously.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
They claim the plugin version will have a 500 mile total range. (That's 125 miles more than our Volt's.) They also claim it will have higher MPGe than our Volt's.
Are they doing this with a bigger battery or a bigger gas tank?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
Yeah I was going to say, my 2004 Ford Econoline E250 had more than a 500 mile range. Then again, it also had a 35 gallon gas tank. Total range is meaningless in a PHEV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
I saw one in person at the Atlanta car show. I think the Volt has a better look but this has more versatility. If I remember correctly, it operates similar to the plug in prius as heavy demand on the gas peddle will cause the gas engine to kick in as well as going at highway speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
Interesting. I wonder what that will cost. If I had the money, I'd still want a Tesla Model S, but I think the base model 150 mile range is in high 50K range before tax credits and the 300 mile model is in the 70K range. Too much for one car, although I ended up spending that much on my Volt and LEAF.

Good to see Ford adding to their plug-in line. However, reading this:

"The combined energy of an electric motor powered by an innovative lithium-ion battery and the 2.0L Atkinson-cycle I-4 gas engine supply the power for the C-MAX Hybrid. It is projected to operate electrically up to 62 mph, allowing the electric traction motor to power the vehicle, providing maximum efficiency. The engine kicks in extra power when needed, such as when passing or merging, and provides the main source of power. Both the gas engine and the electric motor work together to deliver maximum horsepower."

I don't have time to delve into the details fully, but doesn't that sound like Prius Hybrid technology rather than Volt? Doesn't sound like the engine is charging the electric motor, but rather providing power to the wheels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,188 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I suspect it will be closer to the plugin Prius than the Volt in terms of electric range. And yes... I suspect it has a bigger gas tank for increased range. This seems like more ICE with a smaller electric contribution. But it's nice to have another credible alternative at a competitive price point. The More plugin hybrids on the road the better. More choices is a good thing. Bravo Ford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,236 Posts
doesn't that sound like Prius Hybrid technology rather than Volt? Doesn't sound like the engine is charging the electric motor, but rather providing power to the wheels.
I sounds like Prius Hybrid to me (not that there's anything wrong with that).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
235 Posts
from what i've read about fords energi system it is nothing more than a pip on crack. cvt trans, forced ice operation above 60mph, and small (25mi tops) electric range sure sounds familiar. on the bright side the minivan type one has lots of apparently usable room and more seats. great for soccer moms and small buisnesses. gm is going to be forced to build a volt based cuv if ford suceeds. maybe the fords longer range comes from a much larger gas tank/better ice engine? competition always makes a better product. now if gm could only design some of my volts wonkyness out for the 2013 models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
A plug is a plug! The more plugs we have out there, the better. Regardless of what they're attached to. Builds public awareness and demand for infrastructure. Which is why I'm perfectly happy to see the PiP beat the Volt in sales last month. Despite the fact that I consider it a terrible version of the Volt for Prius loyalists that don't know the difference. And that isn't even really less expensive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
89 Posts
Is there a target EV range announced for this one? I read somewhere that the Fusion C-Max would have something on the order of 20 miles EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
Actually Ford and Toyota kind of developed their hybrid tech in tandem. And rather than dealing with the likely patent war, they both just agreed to let it slide. I don't know if that covers this PHEV tech, though. Or if Ford is actually paying Toyota for this one. But Ford is not licensing the hybrid technology from Toyota in their traditional hybrids.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,694 Posts
Considering that the Focus EV is the same price as the Volt, I have a sinking feeling the C-Max Energi will be similarly priced and the Fusion Energi will be even higher.

C-Max Energi


Fusion Energi:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
538 Posts
My initial reaction is I'm unimpressed. I'll agree that the more plug-in's the better, but this just doesn't appeal to me. We want another Volt, but a larger one like a SUV or minivan so this isn't ideal but isn't terrible. This Ford seems to be just like the PiP using gasoline WAY more than I'd want to. I'm guessing that's why it didn't make the Ford EV commercials we've seen lately.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,085 Posts
The PiP configuration is legitimate for those who normally have a very short commute, can charge up frequently and also take very long trips. The Volt fills a middle spot with longer EV range, but poorer charge sustaining mileage.

The only downside to the PiP and Ford energi approaches, is that it doesn't segue well into a pure BEV or FCV configuration, so there is little prospect for economies of scales to initially reduce the cost of a new BEV or FCV. They will be all new builds. The Volt could conceiveably drop in a fuel cell (and perhaps a 3rd motor) to make a viable plug-in fuel cell vehicle.

Back to the energi's - Ford will have to price these vehicles very carefully. Too high, and consumers will opt for the Tesla Motors Model S or X. Too low, and they will lose a lot of money the first few years.

For consumers, it will cause GM, Ford, Nissan and others to finally engage in price wars, etc. GM and Nissan have an early lead in volume production and cost reduction redesigns, so again, it's going to be tough for Ford to make money on these vehicles. At least Ford's C-Max is alone as a plug-in hybrid crossover, but will contend with GM's eAssist for its hybrid only version.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,486 Posts
There was a C-Max Energi at the Philly car show. It looked "ok" but not that big, slightly taller than the Volt. If the AER is less than 35 EPA (as the Volt's is) then it's not worth it. I just don't see a 10-20 mile AER as viable for the extra costs associated. People "complain" at times about paying the premium for the Volt and trying to cost-justify it. All the added components of an EREV should at least give a sizeable AER. The Volts is just about right but I think "right" is always subjective. Is 50 AER "better" or worth the extra $3000 that it would take with a larger battery pack? Volt just about nailed it for most drivers (heh - given that they actually researched it by talking to potential customers...)

The "gaping snout" of the Fusion reminds me of a Whale Shark while feeding. Not sure I would drive that. I had a Chrysler Concorde '98 which had the "wide smile" grille design and when it first came out, a lot of car writers were loving it. It aged but I don't get this design of the Fords. The new Audi styling designs are more appealing with their boxed-snouts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
This is very cool!

I just re-watched "Who killed the electric car" and watched "Revenge of the electric car" the other day. I stand by the opinion I've offered on the forum previously: not for global warming, not for smog, not for overbearing liberal politics, but for how absolutely superior the electric car driving experience is (save sports cars), the electric car won't die again, and it will prevail.

A day of work or parental duty or just running errands in the Volt, using hte EV mode, is better than a day doing the same tasks in any other car I've ever driven. The silence, so you can listen to music. How incredibly smooth the operation is. How easy it feels.

Electric cars are just plain better, and thats why they will win (factor in some packaging efficiency... which will eventually be the catalyst for some electric vehicle or other to become a mainstream hit).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
962 Posts
The day will come when even electric super cars will put conventional super cars to shame as well. Look up the white zombie drag racing videos. He quarter miles faster than all but the fastest ICE cars. And it looks like something a foreign exchange student would drive. Of course he probably blows a quarter of his charge on that quarter mile. But it's still fun. :)
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top