there are ways to do what you want to do. check out many threads with pictures and parts lists and instructions. But please don't stress yourself that you used 0.10 gallons of gas because it was 14 degrees outside.....

 

I continue to be frustrated with the fact that, with a few subtle software changes, a user could select "Comfort" on the Climate control system, and have the resistive heater keep the coolant temp high enough to override an engine on event.

They need to:
1) Make the Climate control functionality like the 2011 and 2012 (the resistive heater doesn't aggressively heat the coolant enough during ERDTT cycles in Comfort mode to maintain the needed temp)
2) Make the engine turn on due to outside cold temps ONLY if the coolant is below a certain temp level.

These two things would prevent the majority of ICE runs due to cold temp. If people wanted the engine to cycle more instead, like when they're on long trips, they could set the Climate mode to Eco for reduced heater use, or Fan Only for engine exclusive heat, just like the 2011's.

 

2) Make the engine turn on due to outside cold temps ONLY if the coolant is below a certain temp level.

Yes, as it is ERDTT will engage the ICE regardless of coolant temp whenever B9 resistance becomes slightly greater than either random chosen setpoints of 15F or 35F via the touchscreen software setting. Whereas the misnomer 'deep cycle' ERDTT is actually a Engine Running Due To Battery Temp function driven by the group of 16 temp sensors attached to the Li-ion and does not display a DIC message unlike ERDTT...

 

Oh $&it..... Here we go.

 

Perhaps they could come out with a "Volt OCD" edition.

 

LOL - that is funny.

 

Perfect timing. So there have been several threads about trying to trick the ice from coming on by setting heating to comfort, fan to 2 or 3 speed and that should be enough to prevent the ice from coming on. So it would have it that I just traveled today and left when it was 18 degrees out, I preconditioned one time while plugged into a 110v line. But did the comfort settings. Low and behold, I was able to avoid the ice from coming on during m first leg of a trip some 12 miles. The temp hovered at 18F. Then on the way home I left the settings the same and got all the way home, used cruise most of the way and heated seating on, The temp dropped down to 16F and ice STILL did not come on UNTIL get this my last 10 ft into my drive way when I had 1 mile supposedly left on my battery and literally just opened my garage door to park and turn off....darn. Now note the temps were readings on my center stack and I have the setting for ice usage set to low which I believe is 15F. So it seems even for the 2014 I got in October 2013, this trick still works. I have had my ice turn on when it was about 19F out before I ran into threads that people like energy czar quoted these suggestions once as I recall. I will have to play a little more on this while its cold here in the NE. Had I tried this the other day, I could have prevented the ice from coming on similarly as soon as I left home with similar temps..aybe a little colder so maybe I could not prevent it and that messed up my all time high of all electric miles with gas of some 378...time to start over on that figure for the volts stat site. And in another thread someone said that fan speed of 2 was too low and the windows start to fog up. He was right because I turned my speed from 3 to 2 and surely enough 1/2 the window fogged up but I left it on 2 in hopes of getting home without ice usage....10ft...i cant believe it...i think my tire might have enven been in the garage bay already.

 

My ERDTT set points are very precise and repeatable. Set at very cold, mine kick in the instant that the display reads 14 degrees or lower. The heater settings don't affect this.

 

My ERDTT set points are very precise and repeatable.

Sorry, but ERDTT is far from what I would call precise since it is based strictly off the resistance value of B9 which is a cheap ($4) made in china sensor. Between the 3 sensors I have (1 original and 2 I ordered), each will read very different resistance values at room temp

 

You know it is really cold out here in Madison and I only have 4 mile commute. For awhile I tried really hard to figure out how to keep the engine off. Today it ran for 3 of the four miles and I decided just to let it go and enjoy the quick to warm up heat and the rest of the experience.

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7695287_729_6905034365
Not designed for real cold weather...

 

So rather than wasting gas you would rather waist the lifetime of your battery?

one of the reasons that the ICE runs is to keep the current draw low from the battery until it can warm up to a better operating temp. Drawing high currents from a cold Li battery will shorten your battery life/capacity and possibly void your battery warranty.

 

So rather than wasting gas you would rather waist the lifetime of your battery?

Could Mountain Mode lead to ICE damage in cold weather?

This logic would possibly make sense if the engine wasn't well over twice as expensive than the battery! Also, the battery would be a helluva lot simpler to replace in the future than the hassle of dropping in a refurbed engine!

one of the reasons that the ICE runs is to keep the current draw low from the battery until it can warm up to a better operating temp. Drawing high currents from a cold Li battery will shorten your battery life/capacity and possibly void your battery warranty.

Sorry but the ICE running due to the (A4) Hybrid/EV Battery Pack temperature is not what I'm talking about since that is dependent on the group of 16 temperature sensors physically attached to the A4 and is NOT ERDTT. What I'm speaking about is B9 which is responsible for engaging the ICE during ERDTT (and the corresponding message on the DIC) strictly for heating of the cabin and creature comfort.

 

I am not stressed, it is just incredibly wasteful when a simple override popup button would do the trick. Now multiple that by the thousands of Volts out there and you are talking about barrels of oil, not a few ounces.

 

Everybody thinks the gas usage is the issue with ERDDT.

To me it's those situations where this little engine powers up for a few moments just before the end of a commute and then sits there with condensation throughout.
Or actually, any short trip where the engine does not get to warm up all the way.

Also, I monitor engine data.
The GM gurus have this poor little ICE not even getting to a decent operating temp when it is acting solely as a gas burning stove.
These are typical shots from my Garmin nuvi with the ecoRouteHD adaptor.

Can anyone tell us that this is totally fine for a modern ICE to operate at low coolant temps and high vacuum?
When in CS mode all these numbers would be in a normal range, but in ERDDT,,, I can't understand what they were thinking...

 

Norton, you're a former Prius owner. I can tell you with authority that the Prius doesn't reach operating temperature either in suburban driving below 15°.

Not the end of the world.

 

Let the Volt operate like it was designed. Do you people actually think you know more than the engineers who designed the car? The engine comes on for a reason. You may be damaging the car by trying to prevent it. Let it operate the way it is supposed to operate!

 

These posts produce the same reaction with me as watching Horders...

"Oh my God, People live like that?"

 

Just for reference, the jury is not out on the price of the battery and engine.
You can look it up right now.

Approx:
$2200 for the Battery
$5500 for the engine.

My point is I want to be easy on both systems.
The battery was designed to do its job: Full Throttle = 110Kw. It has a TMS when plugged in or the car is powered up.
Plus the battery goes thru a slow fade...
I guess the engine does too with oil consumption and then noise.

I'm with my Volt for the long haul.

ps.
My previous GM product was a new '89 Geo Metro, rated 58 MPG hwy.
I kept that little un-airconditioned turd for 13 years and 290k miles. (Tough guy, perseverance, cheapass, you decide...)
It was still running great and did not use oil. But it was rusting in two.
My next car was the first car in 11 years to beat that hwy number, a used 2000 Honda Insight, 71 MPG hwy.
Totaled when someone left turned in front of me in city traffic. I was tired of a 2 seater by then.
Then a few VW TDI's experimenting using WVO, then a '10 Prius.
Then one day I figured out for a little more I could have the highest tech car on the road, a '13 Volt.
This was just as GM dropped the price on the '14's and bargains were out there.

I don't go through cars every few years...

 

.
I kept that little un-airconditioned turd for 13 years and 290k miles.

I have a 1990 isuzu pickup thats a farm truck. I bought and installed a complete AC unit off EBay in this truck.

Why?

Because, I have the means, the ability and the money to not sweat/shiver when I dont have to.

Life is too short to not have comfortable climate whenever the ability is there. You can't take it with you.

 

Dyon,

But the same electric cabin heater is used in the Spark EV, supposedly.
It can operate just fine without an ICE.

Why not save the ICE for road trips and let the poor thing hibernate all winter?

No, I understand,,, hacking is not for everyone and most people buy a new car every few years and don't care about how long a car can actually last.

 

I'm not sure what you are talking about. The heater in my VOlt works just fine without the engine coming on too. If the battery needs the engine on, then let it come on. And I keep my cars as long as I choose, thanks. Sometimes it's only a few months and sometimes it's decades. It depends on the car.

Hacking is for cars after the warranty has expired unless you can afford to throw your car away. If that's you then knock yourself out!

 

My commute is 37 miles roundtrip and mostly on non-freeway surface streets.

If it's below 15 degrees morning and evening I will end up with excess battery range (and more gasoline consumed) by the time I get home.

My ideal (short of altering the car) is to have ERDTT on one leg of the trip only. That leaves me with enough battery to do the other leg without using the engine.

If I routinely drove shorter trips (and it involved temperatures lower than 15 degrees) I might be tempted to change something but I *know* that in a couple of weeks daily ERDTT will be behind me until next winter.

 

I say again: if that's what the Volt needs to do then that's what the Volt needs to do. It's the way it is designed to work. Seriously, if you never what to use any gasoline, buy a Spark EV.

 

I'm not sure why folks have "such issue" with the engine running. If you wanted a car without an engine you should have purchased a Spark EV or a Leaf or a Tesla. Let the Volt operate the way it was designed, designed by automotive engineers with far more intimate knowledge of the vehicle's requirements that any of us have (unless you happen to be one of the Volt's designers, but then if you were why would you not have already thought of this?)

 

If you wanted a car without an engine you should have purchased a Spark EV or a Leaf or a Tesla.

Thank You! I purchased EXACTLY the type of car I wanted and have since fixed it to suit my needs. I am not faulting you for enjoying ERDTT ICE assisted heating although not sure you actually have a dog in the hunt being down in the warmer climate of AZ!

 

Count me as another who dislikes the ICE running due to ambient temp. I had it on seven times today and it is annoying; almost a 1/3 of a gallon of gas wasted. I guess my past two years have been warm because this is only the second time the temps have been so low to cause this to happen. But I'm glad I don't live in a cold region.

Engineers can and do make mistakes, look at the laundry list of bugs/inefficient design on countless threads.

 

Of course they did make a substantial correction in ERDTT in 2013 when they added the choice of 35° or 15° for the threshold. I am very happy to have the 15° option, given the length of my commute and the area where I live.

 

I blame Volt Stats for all this craziness. If there was no bragging rights, this silliness would drop dramatically.

"I dont mind wearing layers as long as I get to be on the Volt Stats hall of fame."

Phift! I would burn a third of gas in the cockpit in a cup if it meant being comfy.

 

+ 1 million

 

Elemental cracks me up with his responses in this thread (and I mean that in a good way).

I'm actually having a side bar with Ian the Volt advisor on ERDTT and the Climate Control settings as we speak. I'm hoping to get some clarification from engineers and report directly back on some of the rationale.

Present Behavior:
- Whenever below a certain outdoor temperature, engine runs.
- Subsequent engine runs based on outdoor temperature and coolant temperature.

Desired Behavior (my opinion):
- Whenever below a certain outdoor temperature AND coolant temperature below a certain level, engine runs.
- Subsequent engine runs based on outdoor temperature and coolant temperature.
- Aggressiveness of heating coolant with resistive heater based on Eco/Comfort/Fan Only Climate setting (just like when it's warm enough out that the engine doesn't run due to cold temps, and like it did on the 2011-2012 Volt)

We already know from GM that engine runs in cold temps is ONLY to help heat the cabin. It should follow then, that the engine need not run if the coolant temp is sufficiently warm, which is the rationale for my desired behavior above.

When people want to conserve battery on longer trips and let the waste engine heat work it's magic, they can use Eco or Fan only which reduces or eliminates (respectively) the amount of power used by the resistive heater to heat the coolant.

 

Elemental cracks me up with his responses in this thread (and I mean that in a good way).

I'm actually having a side bar with Ian the Volt advisor on ERDTT and the Climate Control settings as we speak. I'm hoping to get some clarification from engineers and report directly back on some of the rationale.

Present Behavior:
- Whenever below a certain outdoor temperature, engine runs.
- Subsequent engine runs based on outdoor temperature and coolant temperature.

Desired Behavior (my opinion):
- Whenever below a certain outdoor temperature AND coolant temperature below a certain level, engine runs.
- Subsequent engine runs based on outdoor temperature and coolant temperature.
- Aggressiveness of heating coolant with resistive heater based on Eco/Comfort/Fan Only Climate setting (just like when it's warm enough out that the engine doesn't run due to cold temps, and like it did on the 2011-2012 Volt)

Under present behavior, I believe ERDTT continues for a given driving session, even if the outdoor temperature rises beyond the initial trigger level.

The distinction that you make in your first red entry isn't really relevant since the engine half of the coolant loop won't be initially warmed unless the engine runs. I believe that's the case for the pre-2013's.

I have experienced the pre-2013-like behavior you're looking for, but somewhat unpredictably. It appears that it's only worked for me when the outside temperature is below 0°, but I'm not certain. I've successfully done it twice so far. The first half of next week will give me more opportunities in my morning commute.

 

By "main loop" do you mean the heater core loop or the engine loop?

 

I mean the portion of the loop that is always part of the loop. There's a loop for just the heater core, and loop for the engine, but they both share a common part of the loop. I'm referring to that part as the "main loop"

 

OK. I had pictured the 2011-2012 Comfort mode operation as electrically sustaining the engine temperature but the description you link to does indicate that the 2-way coolant control valve switches to bypass mode (closes off from the engine) as soon as the engine stops. That makes more sense.

Sorry to cause consternation.

 

One Night last January, 9 degrees F' the house was full of houligans, I mean noisy guests. I needed to complete a couple of posts, blogs and an email or two.

Setting out after warm goodbye's and without a fully fueled battery, drove the 3 miles to one of the more then 43, L2 FREE EV Filling Stations in town. ERDTT began, sucked down .07/100th of a gallon of gas which ended as I pulled up to the Electric Pump. I had 21 miles of AER left.

Shut down plugged in and booted back up. It was 10:30 at night. The heater was in comfort, fan on 2, temp at 72 degrees.

I pushed the Volts seat all the way back, put some Jazz on the XM and settled in.

Finished my blog on my driod, posted it, finished a couple of emails as the time rolled on, began to get sleepy as the snow began to blanket the parking lot.

Over on the GM-Volt site was reading a few posts as the wind began to kick up, now 12:30 am and was slowly lulled to sleep by the soft jazz.....

.......................................................................

WHAT! Cars, snow packed cars all around me as now it is 7:30 am and the parking lot has filled with the local gasser driving employees.

I awake and look around. It has been 9 hours since the last ERDTT. My Volt windows and windshield have drops of water beading on them, it is 14 degrees F'.

I have a fully charged battery and have consumed '0' gasoline!


Amazing!

My MY12 Chevy Volt EREV as a VolterHome, RemoteEVOffice, WarmingStation, ect.


As I unplugged I noticed another unused L2 EV Electric Pump, so did not feel like I had hogged the station.

I drove home smugly having slept the sleep of the just!


lol


Best-

Thomas J. Thias

Sundance Chevrolet Inc.

517-749-0532

Twitter.com/AmazingChevVolt

 

OK, so I've slept on this a little.

Are we sure that the engine coolant doesn't continue to circulate through the engine after the engine stops?

Does anyone have access to the sequence of events regarding coolant management during an ERDTT event?

 

If you cut off the pump, would be hard to continue circulating coolant thru the ICE...

Simplified diagram shown in bypass mode = no ICE assisted heating


Passenger Compartment Heater System Description and Operation

Passenger Compartment Heater Coolant Control Valve and Auxiliary Heater Coolant Pump

The passenger compartment heater coolant control valve is also controlled by hybrid/EV powertrain control module 2 to assist in regulating passenger compartment comfort based on presence or absence of engine heat. Refer to Automatic HVAC Description and Operation.

The passenger compartment heater system uses the engine radiator, the two 12 V pulse width modulated (PWM) radiator fans, a 12 V auxiliary heater coolant pump, a passenger compartment heater coolant control valve, a high- voltage coolant heater control module and a heater core. The hybrid/EV powertrain control module 2 operates the two radiator fans in response to engine temperature.

The passenger compartment heater coolant control valve has two positions. When commanded in bypass mode, as when the engine is OFF, the passenger compartment heater coolant control valve separates the engine and the cabin heater control module coolant loops to prevent heat generated by the cabin heater control module for passenger compartment heating from dissipating into the engine coolant loop. After the engine starts up and is warmed up, excess engine heat will allowed to assist the cabin heater control module in heating the passenger compartment; the passenger compartment heater coolant control valve is commanded to link mode and the two coolant loops are connected.

The HVAC control module turns on the auxiliary heater coolant pump and monitors the temperature sensors in the passenger compartment and coolant loop to determine if the high-voltage cabin heater control module is needed. Passenger compartment heat is provided by air flowing through the heater core. The heater core is heated by coolant from the engine, the high- voltage cabin heater control module or both. The hybrid/EV powertrain control module 2 will command the position of the passenger compartment heater coolant control valve to either isolate the passenger compartment heater loop from the engine coolant loop or link the two loops together to maximize efficiency depending on the passenger compartment heat requirements. When operating the vehicle in cold temperatures, the engine may run for short periods to assist in maximizing heat efficiency to the passenger compartment depending on the outside temperature and the passenger compartment heat requirements.

The hybrid/EV powertrain control module 2 will command the passenger compartment heater coolant control valve into bypass mode when the module goes to sleep, at controller wake-up, and during other times except:

• During learn (after extended loss of 12 V power to the controller)
• When the scan tool is sending a command.
• If the valve is stuck in an intermediate position (between two end positions) due to failure or debris.

The passenger compartment heater cooling system circulates a 50/50 mixture of DEXCOOL® and distilled water.



So the hybrid/EV powertrain control module 2 K114A determines when to initiate ERDTT which is initially based on B9 resistance becoming greater than the software setpoint (35F or 15F) and if you are able to delay or avoid B9 becoming greater than @30KΩ = NO ERDTT!