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Discussion Starter #1
So despite how enamored I am with the Bolt (even just the concept of having an average-priced car be a full-functioning BEV), I have to say that I am very disappointed in the delivery and ordering processes.

As some of you might know, bro1999 had been tracking the Bolt production and shipment very closely, and despite having what could have been hundreds of production Bolts built by the end of the first week of December, it took until the end of the month to get them on dealership lots. I know that the dealerships themselves have to be held accountable for part of that shipment process, but those train car loads of Bolts sat in a siding for nearly two weeks before shipping out. I think this was GM's saving a few dollars by consolidating the shipment, but to that, I say, "Shame on you, GM." The few thousand dollars you might have saved cost you dearly in reputation, and it made what might have been meant as a good-natured rib at Tesla (delivering three pre-ordered Bolts to customers in Fremont) into a "publicity stunt."

On the ordering front, I also have some disappointments. I feel upset on behalf of others who pre-ordered and are still waiting, but that was not my experience. I reserved through a dealership (one of your highest gross EV dealers) that was supposed to receive 80 Bolts by Christmas. I was one of the first to reserve, and at that time, we were given a TPW of 11/28. Well, the TPW went from 11/28 to 12/5, and the number of Bolts went from 80 to 16. And as of today (the last day of the year), that number is now only 12. I still don't know if the car I originally ordered has been delivered (it is a mere 60 miles away from the dealership). So close, yet for tax purposes, so far away. Pre-ordering or reserving a car shouldn't feel like playing the Lotto.

My disappointment also extends to many of the dealerships, though. From what I'm seeing, many are using this trickle of Bolts to mark the vehicles up quite a bit. Not that I think the i3 is worth the cost, but the Bolt EV (even in Premier trim) shouldn't be the same price. The other issue I see is, many of the dealerships seem clueless about what really matters in the Bolt. Of the 12 that arrived at the dealership I went through, only 2 were not already reserved, but they both had something in common. Yes, they were both base LTs, but that's not the only thing. Neither had the DCFC option. If you ordered a Bolt EV (especially at this point) without the DCFC option, it tells me that you are completely out of touch. Sure, maybe a few customers here or there would want a Bolt EV without fast charging, but from what I'm seeing, I fear that the initial Bolt EV sales are going to be poor simply because of the number of non-DCFC Bolts the dealerships ordered.

From what I've seen, it seems that dealerships are cutting the DCFC option on the most stripped down trims of the Bolt, and my guess is because they want to make it as cheap as possible. But people who are in the market for Bolt EVs are not doing it to be cheap, and if you can afford a $35,000 car, you can afford a $36,000. So here's my little side prediction on that note: By this time next year, more Premier Bolt EVs will be sold without DCFC than LT Bolt EVs without DCFC. Why? The people who know they don't want DCFC also know what they DO want, so they will likely buy/lease fully loaded Bolt EVs minus the DCFC option.

I'm trying to account for some of the decisions and choices above. The only thing I can think of is that maybe everyone just assumes that the Bolt EV is nothing more than lease bait. Sorry to burst your bubble, but one of the most revolutionary cars to be built this century is not just another compliance car to be leased out due to the Fed tax credit and residual value.
 

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I am a bit bummed by the whole delivery process too. I can track a $2 package from Amazon with the Amazon app and get real time updates and delivery estimates, but I have to jump through 18 hoops to get rough updates on the $43k car I paid for? And then still have no idea when it is getting delivered to the dealer?
 

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Seems to be nit-picking. GM worked diligently to ensure that consumers received a quality EV and not some rushed to to consumer beta product to be fixed later. It may have pushed back deliveries a little, but in the end consumers are better for it.

As for the bolts ordered without DCFC, that is entirely a choice by the dealer to order them. And choice is good for consumers. Some city, for example, could use it as a fleet vehicle without needing DCFC.

I'm happy you got a bolt, I just think you may be nit-picking things here.
 

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Both of you have basically "taken one for the team" as far as suffering through the long and winding order to delivery process on a new line of vehicles.

In 2003 I had to wait three+ months to get my CRV from Honda... and I had no choice of options- you either got the LX or EX and that was it! The only choice was color... and god forbid you didn't want silver :eek:

Well, hopefully the wait for the Bolt is worth it as it was for our now almost 14 yo CRV with 190K mi on it!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I know it's a bit of a rant and a bit nit-picky, but I think they are valid concerns that GM should look to address in the future. Even from here, it is evident that GM is suffering from a bit of inner turmoil, which is a bit concerning. They are doing an amazing job furthering EVs, but you can tell that they are running into internal resistance. The more they can do now to address some of these issues, they better off they will be moving forward.

As for the DCFC option, I could understand if they were selling the vehicles in a different region. California has one of the most robust CCS networks in the world, and all of these Bolt EVs are going to early adopters. Fleet vehicles might not want DCFC, sure, but fleet orders won't be going in until the second or third round of deliveries. Who knows? Maybe because California dealerships ordered enough without the option, they'll be sitting on the lots ready for cities and municipalities after they get their budgets finalized.
 

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The Bolt is not unique when it comes to difficulties in the delivery process. General Motors needs to fix their special order system or just stop doing it all together and I'll switch to another brand that can get it right.

I want a Bolt. I did not order one because I do not trust their ordering system at all.

Out of 4 GM special orders, only ONE went correctly. 1 lost car (never arrived, ever, sold to a dealer back east), one so late the next years model was already at showrooms, and one just way later.

Imagine if you ordered a 2017 Chevrolet Bolt in Sept, it was built in March and sitting awaiting shipment, and in late June, they could not estimate when the car would arrive, but the 2018's were already in showrooms. That's how one of them went before I pulled the plug.

Tragically bad special orders. Worst out of all? Maybe, they are sure fighting hard for the title. But pretty sure Tesla clinched it with the Model X 5 seat edition. That will be really, really hard to beat.
 

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IMO, there is no acceptable excuse for not making DCFC standard on this vehicle standard. I hope this is something that GM will realize and make standard for the 2018 MY. You would have thought they would have learned from the Leaf. This is so shortsighted and unfortunately an uniformed consumer will suffer and by the time the realize, it will be too late and then they are stuck with a neutered car that cant be fast charged ever. What really is the incremental cost of the fast charging once you take out the additional profit margin?
 

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I believe that DCFC should be included in the Premier trim package. This way I can search inventories easily for DCFC. As it is, I have to guess and hope the info is correct.

Obviously, I could order one with DCFC, but I hate waiting 9 months for a car that never arrives.

Some people do not want DCFC (if you have another car, you probably do not need it), so it should be optional on the base trim.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This is so shortsighted and unfortunately an uniformed consumer will suffer and by the time the realize, it will be too late and then they are stuck with a neutered car that cant be fast charged ever.
This is my primary concern as well. And as Qinsp mentioned, searching for cars based on whether they have FAST PROVISIONS CHARGING is a pain. Either half the dealer-ordered Bolt EVs don't have it, or the dealers never bothered to list it as a feature. Either way, that's a major fail in my opinion.
 

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As they say, "First world problems....."

Toyota Prime buyers have been going through the same thing with some buying across the country, flying, and driving back.
 

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IMO, there is no acceptable excuse for not making DCFC standard on this vehicle standard.
+1. No excuse for sure. This type of GM stupidity is what puts Tesla ahead. I have looked at what extra hardware is included in my Spark EV DCFC option. It is nothing more than 2X high voltage wires in orange wrap, 1X contractor, and two connector pins, with some code that's already written to negotiate charging. Total hardware cost < $50.

Tesla uses the same pins (wires) for AC charging and DCFC charging, and that's how it should be done. Since negotiation occurs before charging, the car either charges AC or DC at one instance of the time - so either AC or DC contractor closes from the same input wires. The SAE combo plug and CHAdeMO plug designs are just pure stupid, and GM sticking with stupid makes them :confused:.

Off topic, but another sad reality with SAE combo charging stations is that they have ~60% availability rate, and there is only 1 stall per location - so basically they cannot be relied on...
 

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+1. No excuse for sure. This type of GM stupidity is what puts Tesla ahead. I have looked at what extra hardware is included in my Spark EV DCFC option. It is nothing more than 2X high voltage wires in orange wrap, 1X contractor, and two connector pins, with some code that's already written to negotiate charging. Total hardware cost < $50.

Tesla uses the same pins (wires) for AC charging and DCFC charging, and that's how it should be done. Since negotiation occurs before charging, the car either charges AC or DC at one instance of the time - so either AC or DC contractor closes from the same input wires. The SAE combo plug and CHAdeMO plug designs are just pure stupid, and GM sticking with stupid makes them :confused:.

Off topic, but another sad reality with SAE combo charging stations is that they have ~60% availability rate, and there is only 1 stall per location - so basically they cannot be relied on...
So you are saying Tesla is Stupid?

When Tesla made their first 200 mile EV ($$$), there was only RV park charging in most areas. When they came out with DCFC, it was a $2000 or $2500 option.

Today they folded in the DCFC costs, so it's only $69k for a black, 210 mi stripped Model S. However there are still routes that take RV charging, and still over-crowded remote charging locations.
 

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So you are saying Tesla is Stupid?

When Tesla made their first 200 mile EV ($$$), there was only RV park charging in most areas. When they came out with DCFC, it was a $2000 or $2500 option.

Today they folded in the DCFC costs, so it's only $69k for a black, 210 mi stripped Model S. However there are still routes that take RV charging, and still over-crowded remote charging locations.
But the hardware was already in every car. I wouldn't have a huge problem with it if GM kept it an option - but made it easily retrofittable by a dealer at a later date.

The guidance we're hearing is that there won't be a retrofit, so a car built without DCFC is permanently unable to take long road trips - a foolish and unnecessary hobbling of the car that the dealer/first owner may not even realize will cripple it for the future.

The other thing that's amazingly stupid is that the Bolt EVSE supplied with the car is a 120V only, 12A unit. Which means Bolts aren't going to be able to charge at those RV parks you mentioned at a useful rate unless the owner buys a second portable plug equipped EVSE.
 

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So you are saying Tesla is Stupid?

When Tesla made their first 200 mile EV ($$$), there was only RV park charging in most areas. When they came out with DCFC, it was a $2000 or $2500 option.

Today they folded in the DCFC costs, so it's only $69k for a black, 210 mi stripped Model S. However there are still routes that take RV charging, and still over-crowded remote charging locations.
Not sure if you read what I said, so I will re-iterate - I like Tesla's design, and "SAE combo plug and CHAdeMO plug designs are just pure stupid".
 

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...
The other thing that's amazingly stupid is that the Bolt EVSE supplied with the car is a 120V only, 12A unit. Which means Bolts aren't going to be able to charge at those RV parks you mentioned at a useful rate unless the owner buys a second portable plug equipped EVSE.
As it turns out, the EVSE that comes with the Bolt is the same as the Gen2 Volt, and can do Level 2 with an upgrade adapter. ;)
 

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No Bolt till at least Monday. Wtf
So does it count that you "bought it" before the end of the year, or do you have to wait until 2018 to get the tax credit? That would suck.
 

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No Bolt till at least Monday. Wtf
So does it count that you "bought it" before the end of the year, or do you have to wait until 2018 to get the tax credit? That would suck.
Who knows. I filled out all the paperwork, but now I'm not sure if I can claim it this year if the damn car isn't even at the dealership yet.
This has turned into a huge clusterf__k.
 

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Bet my accountant will recommend taking the credit for 2016 if the paperwork and money transfers take place this year. He will say worst case scenario is lose in an audit, and that would be a nit picking auditor.
 
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