GM Volt Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
G

·
I read the article, but I am worried why there are so many negative comments on the Chevy Bolt EV. Most of them are from posters who have NEVER even seen the Bolt EV up close! There is no perfect car, but the few problems that the Bolt EV had with MT and other reviewers does not negate its quality and great EV range. I prefer a economy box on a great EV chassis than a luxury box over a gas guzzler chassis.

BTW, I have read and compared the Tesla Model 3 and the Chevy Bolt EV through their owner manuals, both now available online. The Model 3 has too much "gagetry" and depends greatly on the touchscreen to control almost 95% of its features. What will the M3 owner do if that screen fails while traveling? The driver cannot even adjust the A/C outlets!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I read the article, but I am worried why there are so many negative comments on the Chevy Bolt EV.......
You mean like this one from.....

Pushmi-Pullyu said:
The facts rather strongly indicate that GM has no plans to build the Bolt EV in high volume. Tesla has spent billions of dollars to build Gigafactory One, and has strong-armed its battery partner, Panasonic, to also pony up billions of dollars, to ensure they would have an adequate supply of batteries for up to, eventually, 400,000 Model 3’s per year plus another 100,000 Model S/X per year.

GM has made no such commitment to building BEVs in any serious volume, and no money at all spent on building battery factories. Those are two of several reasons why they are building only 30,000 Bolt EVs in the first year of production, and they’re apparently not going to build many more than that in the second year.

As I have said many times, we will know that legacy auto makers are getting serious about building compelling long-range BEVs in large numbers only if and when they commit to building out capacity for making battery cells in high volume. Reportedly VW has now made that commitment (I hope that isn’t just more of VW’s vaporware, altho I’m skeptical), but GM certainly has not, and isn’t yet talking about any future plans to do so.
?? 400K per year model 3's eh? There are several things wrong with his perception. It's pretty common, particularly on Inside EVs. He goes on and on, but why bother with it? You like a car - you buy a car.

Well, you buy a car if you can. Canadians are having almost as much trouble getting a Bolt as a model 3. Such is the state of things.

I did enjoy Eric's remark:

ClarksonCote said:
It’s kinda hilarious to read you won’t buy the Bolt because of the wait, and go into say the solution for you is to “wait” for the Model 3. Hmmmmmm
I agree with this......

nuclearboy said:
They are sitting on the lots around me. GM is not holding the public back by not building more of them faster. They are readily available for anyone who wants one. (our Canadian neighbors excluded of course). If I wanted a second one, I could be driving it by the end of the day.
I was test driving one of three at my dealer a couple of weeks ago. I could have kept it and might have if I wasn't eagerly waiting for this mystery Buick (or whatever brand) that's supposed to be coming soon. I didn't care for the Bolt seats but there are fixes for that. Else, I can't say much bad about it except that I'd really like something a little bigger, as in a lot longer and a tad wider.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,678 Posts
I think the difference between GM and Tesla is that if GM saw significantly increased demand, they could ramp up Bolt production pretty quickly. Tesla can't come close their current demand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I think the difference between GM and Tesla is that if GM saw significantly increased demand, they could ramp up Bolt production pretty quickly. Tesla can't come close their current demand.
I think the differences between GM and Tesla are many. I'd start with the willingness to operate at a loss. GM's not going gangbusters on EVs until they can see margins on it outside of fleet compliance needs IMO. That's supposed to become the case with the next round of EV/PHEV offerings.

What I read someone here post about model 3 losses per unit in Q1 2018 made my jaw drop. It was a staggering number if true.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,220 Posts
Paraphrasing Pushmi-Pullyu "I don't like the Bolt because GM is not building a huge battery factory. "

Comments like that show that some are basing their dislike on something other than the car itself. Like those that dis he Volt because it has a gas engine (a built-in SuperCharger in my book). I chalk it up to The cult of Elon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,678 Posts
GM's not going gangbusters on EVs until they can see margins on it outside of fleet compliance needs IMO. That's supposed to become the case with the next round of EV/PHEV offerings.
You are probably correct that they will do better on newer models. But I also assume that economies of scale may play in. If they could sell 10x Bolts, they might have a different profit equation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You are probably correct that they will do better on newer models. But I also assume that economies of scale may play in. If they could sell 10x Bolts, they might have a different profit equation.
And yet it's a rare day when I don't see at least one gen 1 Volt on the road. It may need some more time to propagate but I can't say that about any other GM EV quite yet. I've seen 'em, but not that regularly. If the rumor is true, they sold those gen 1 Volts at a loss too.

As long as I have the one I wanted, I don't sweat these things. I can wait a few more years for GM's program to mature but only a few.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
You are probably correct that they will do better on newer models. But I also assume that economies of scale may play in. If they could sell 10x Bolts, they might have a different profit equation.
Some things do get better with volume, i.e. Tooling and development costs become less per car. Other costs don't really change with volume. When I quoted jobs at a machine shop, by the time you made 1000 pcs there was almost no advantage in cost to making more. You had fully spread out setup and programming time and now cost was simply labor, machine time, and materials.
I expect they could recover more tooling an development costs at 10x the bolt volume, but batteries won't be cheaper, factory overhead won't change much.
I think this is the fallacy of a $35k tm3. At say 3k production per month, there is not a lot of effiecency to gain by making a lot more of them. The fact that 15kw of battery costs $9k suggests that the costs are higher than they let on. If battery cost is truly $100/kw, that is only a $1500 cost. The whole Bolt pack only costs ~$12k. A complete second motor is only a $5k option. That $9k is to make a profit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
I know I like mine very much. Really solid car that's fun and practical. After 3000 miles the suspension has loosened a bit so it's a nice blend of handling and comfort. Neither I nor my various passengers have had a complaint about the seats. No mechanical or software issues so far.
Vacationing in Socal at the moment and have seen a couple M3s. Also see MS's without stickers. Owners don't want to degrade the looks and figure a pure EV won't get ticketed for an hov violation?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,405 Posts
I think the differences between GM and Tesla are many. I'd start with the willingness to operate at a loss. GM's not going gangbusters on EVs until they can see margins on it outside of fleet compliance needs IMO. That's supposed to become the case with the next round of EV/PHEV offerings.

What I read someone here post about model 3 losses per unit in Q1 2018 made my jaw drop. It was a staggering number if true.
I did the math, and IIRC, for every Tesla that rolled off the assy line in Jan/Feb/Mar it cost $26,000.

They can say it's for R&D or tooling or flying monkeys, but that's after 5 years of mass producing EVs.

Fork who orgasm over 'Tesla's' battery factory need to understand most of their batteries are imported as of today.
And the Gigafactory still needs Panasonic to chip in more investment, and Panasonic made a rare public comment that, "it is evaluating the situation" when asked about how much and how fast they will chip into the Nevada site.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,416 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
.....and Panasonic made a rare public comment that, "it is evaluating the situation" when asked about how much and how fast they will chip into the Nevada site.
Similarly they're hedging on anything related to a supposed China factory. I haven't heard boo about the New York solar panel factory since I read that they were moving in and taking over primary production, since Tesla was failing on their contract with the state who built the factory for them for free. Something about not having a clue about how to automate the factory..... cost overruns.... etcetera......

Neither I nor my various passengers have had a complaint about the seats.
That's a really weird thing about the front seats. I can't say it pinched my hips or hurt my back like some say, but I didn't find them to be nearly as comfortable as my Volt seats, or my Silverado for that matter. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, as to who will or won't notice it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Neither I nor my various passengers have had a complaint about the seats.
That's a really weird thing about the front seats. I can't say it pinched my hips or hurt my back like some say, but I didn't find them to be nearly as comfortable as my Volt seats, or my Silverado for that matter. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it, as to who will or won't notice it.
I would say that I sit ON the bolt seat but IN the Silverado seat. On really long trip legs the Silverado would be preferred but it's a moot point since the bolt isn't a long distance traveler, for me.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
21,220 Posts
I know I like mine very much. Really solid car that's fun and practical. After 3000 miles the suspension has loosened a bit so it's a nice blend of handling and comfort. Neither I nor my various passengers have had a complaint about the seats. No mechanical or software issues so far.
Vacationing in Socal at the moment and have seen a couple M3s. Also see MS's without stickers. Owners don't want to degrade the looks and figure a pure EV won't get ticketed for an hov violation?
I've seen a few Bolts, a fair number of Volts and Model S some Model X the odd Laef (haha), and a rare iMiev.

Today there was a BMW i8 parked in the taco place my wife and I decided to try out. That's a first for me.

My wife and I have no issues with the Bolt seats either. I agree they are an inch narrower than my Volt's. I guess you could say the Bolt's seats make my butt look an inch wider? :)
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top