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It is interesting but with Ioniq's air cooled battery I wouldn't call it a winner in any category.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It is interesting but with Ioniq's air cooled battery I wouldn't call it a winner in any category.
Battery tech will evolve and get cheaper. Cleary the Ioniq's drivetrain is very efficient. You'd be _____ to take that away from them.
 

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Sorry to contradict, but there were two clear winners and the rest was a bit fuzzy.

I notice the list omitted Eric's Performance Model 3 that took the same wrong route that I did and had 5% worse efficiency than the identical Performance Model 3 that took the correct route. Just post your best, I guess.
 

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Battery tech will evolve and get cheaper. Cleary the Ioniq's drivetrain is very efficient. You'd be _____ to take that away from them.
It also has a small battery and lighter weight which contributes to "efficiency" so not all what it seems. You have to compare apples to apples not apples to oranges unless mention you are comparing different fruit.

Putting in a smaller battery with less weight in order to get better efficiency does not a technological breakthrough make.
 

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The test reports that the Bolt gets well under 210 miles of range in California.
Which is significantly different than owners report.
The GM press event had several Bolts go 240 miles at the hands of editors, with none coming up short.
In reality, we did a range test on Saturday through 4 counties of California, all freeway. Average speed of traffic for 124 miles? 36 mph on a Saturday at 1 pm to 4:30 pm. Congestion is the norm, not unfettered driving.
 

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The test reports that the Bolt gets well under 210 miles of range in California.
Which is significantly different than owners report.
The GM press event had several Bolts go 240 miles at the hands of editors, with none coming up short.
In reality, we did a range test on Saturday through 4 counties of California, all freeway. Average speed of traffic for 124 miles? 36 mph on a Saturday at 1 pm to 4:30 pm. Congestion is the norm, not unfettered driving.
Well, this test was specifically for freeway efficiency: steady state 75 mph driving. Essentially, a valid metric for traveling. It's slightly worse than the EPA rated highway mileage (220 miles per charge), but it otherwise aligns with my experiences that steady state driving at ~65 mph will result in the EPA combined range estimate of 238 miles.

Regardless, I wasn't about to do this test without capturing it from my POV. As it turns out, my Bolt EV's speedometer might be reading high (along with the Ioniq's, apparently), so our 75 mph was actually ~77 mph according to the Teslas. Also, I'm not going to cry foul because I wasn't really doing this to compete against the Teslas (my point was to demonstrate actual Bolt EV freeway efficiency through a trusted source -- Bjorn Nyland); however, I'm reasonably certain that some of the Model 3 owners were not applying the same assiduousness that I was to the testing procedure. In the background of some of the videos, you can hear some Tesla owners calling out others for things like slow rolling and drafting.

Despite that, if you watch both Bjorn and my POV videos, his and my average speeds by the time we reached the final freeway off ramp were within 3 km/h of each other (mine was 107 km/h average versus his 110 km/h average).

 

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There is thread on TMC that discusses what many owners are seeing for range in their Model 3 P cars at 75mph average.
It's not 300+ miles reported by this test. Odd.
As far as folk freaking out at 244, that is seen in Volts quite often, even Edmunds:
https://insideevs.com/2019-chevy-volt-70-miles/
That is 5 miles per kWh or in RPN 200Wh/Mile.
 

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There is thread on TMC that discusses what many owners are seeing for range in their Model 3 P cars at 75mph average.
It's not 300+ miles reported by this test. Odd.
As far as folk freaking out at 244, that is seen in Volts quite often, even Edmunds:
https://insideevs.com/2019-chevy-volt-70-miles/
That is 5 miles per kWh or in RPN 200Wh/Mile.
Yup, and if you reference Bjorn's own 75 mph testing video in a Model 3 AWD from earlier this week, his efficiency is almost identical to what I was seeing in my Bolt EV:
  • Warm up: 293 Wh/mi
  • Aero caps off: 299 Wh/mi
  • Aero caps on: 288 Wh/mi

 

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Some clear winners in this test.

Any other comparisons that are not done on the same roads at the same time do not show how two+ cars compare.

The above shows some big differences on the 'same' test. (Wheel size looks to be one factor as well but we've seen that in various other test. Wonder how the Bolt would do on 18", 19" or 20" tires.)
 

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Well we have Kona and Niro coming this spring so I am real curious how they upset the apple cart.

Besides highway driving at high speeds like 75 I would like to see an side road circuit test where speeds rarely hit 55 with starts/stops and such. Plus redo this test but hold it to 70. that 244 number is right in the middle of the numbers I saw, sub 75 and I was beating my 310 expected range and 75+ in rain and cooler temperatures I was higher.

then you have days like today... 21F... oof
 

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Well we have Kona and Niro coming this spring so I am real curious how they upset the apple cart.

Besides highway driving at high speeds like 75 I would like to see an side road circuit test where speeds rarely hit 55 with starts/stops and such. Plus redo this test but hold it to 70. that 244 number is right in the middle of the numbers I saw, sub 75 and I was beating my 310 expected range and 75+ in rain and cooler temperatures I was higher.

then you have days like today... 21F... oof
I have a feeling that they are going to run into the apple cart and simply fall over. In that, I'm speaking specifically about efficiency. The Kona, Niro, and Soul all have some great qualities that the Bolt EV lacks, but it appears that freeway efficiency won't be one of them.

I can't explain why when Bjorn tested the Ampera-E it was so inefficient compared to the Hyundai/KIA offerings that he tested, but I will say that his data does not align with my own (across numerous logged trips and tests) or the data that ABRP has gathered. Bolt EV Achieves 3.92 mi/kWh at 65 mph

The most efficient of the upcoming long-range EVs is the Kona Electric, and according to the EPA, its highway efficiency is only 3.53 mi/kWh compared to the Bolt EV's 3.62 mi/kWh. It remains to be seen whether the Kona can exceed EPA ratings in the same way as the Bolt EV, but at best, I'd expect those two to have very similar freeway efficiencies. And again, I shouldn't have to say this, but as a reminder, my saying that another EV is comparable to the Bolt EV isn't a knock. It's a compliment.
 

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Any other comparisons that are not done on the same roads at the same time do not show how two+ cars compare.
And need to be repeated at least three times. Ideally about seven times, with the highest and lowest figures thrown out and the remaining five averaged.
 

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And even then, you can't rule out collusion between the Eastern Bloc judges.
And need to be repeated at least three times. Ideally about seven times, with the highest and lowest figures thrown out and the remaining five averaged.
 

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I have a feeling that they are going to run into the apple cart and simply fall over. In that, I'm speaking specifically about efficiency. The Kona, Niro, and Soul all have some great qualities that the Bolt EV lacks, but it appears that freeway efficiency won't be one of them.
Oh I am sure what it is going to come down to amenities that the Korean pair have. Hopefully it will cause GM to up their game. There are interior features for that pair I would not mind having in the TM3. Efficiency numbers won't affect most buyers because they will simply lock onto the higher EPA range number and ignore any "real world" tests. Throw in that the interior looks subjectively better in pictures and GM will need to push the mid cycle refresh on the Bolt sooner. Now I want to go see either of these two but I am not in CARB state so GM has that advantage. The real truth comes out in how many Kia/Hyundai produce for the states.
 
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