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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Lot of conversations and videos on people saying how the size of the Model 3 will have a big impact on sales of Tesla in places where smaller cars are more common.

Plus now the CCS 2 being supported.

Both of these combined could be huge.

Title: Tesla will be shipping 3k Model 3 to Europe every week by Feb 2019
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-europe-3k-per-week-february-2019-report/

In foreign territories, the Model 3 might actually have even more potential, with Tesla noting in its Q3 2018 Update Letter that the mid-sized premium sedan market in Europe is "more than twice as big as the same segment in the US."


Via: https://electrek.co/2018/11/14/tesla-model-3-ccs-2-plug-europe-adapter-model-s-model-x/





 

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I think it's bound to. Even without those advantages, the Model 3 is already more than a third of all ever Teslas sold in the US, after barely a year of mass production.
 

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I like to see this become a universal plug worldwide. Why not?
Massively oversized for the function, awkward and ugly, with two phase connections on it that are useless 99% of the time in the US (that's a European CCS2 plus, based on Mennekes/Type 2, with three AC phases and ground. Three phase power is rare in the US, mostly only in commercial sites.)
 

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That plug is so big! A long long time ago, when I was an industrial consultant, I was told by European customers, mostly automakers, that US-made industrial automation products, used BIG buttons, cause American workers must be clumsy. Their European-made automation products, used much smaller buttons, from companies like Siemens and Telemechanique, since their workers weren't so clumsy. Seriously! I heard this all the time from their top brass and engineers. Now that plug makes me laugh, since the US Tesla connector is tiny in comparison.
 

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I think when you get into 20 miles a minute and up you are going to see big plugs. Countries can't even decide which side of the road to drive on let alone what a charging plug should look like.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
A key point of this thread is that Tesla has switched to a standard where there are a lot more then just the Tesla Superchargers.

Doesn't really matter the size of it. Has little to do with my point.

This just makes Tesla's smaller vehicles in the Model 3 (and future Y) very desirable in other countries because it will have very flexible options in charging where other countries have a more robust build-out of charging stations.
 

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A key point of this thread is that Tesla has switched to a standard where there are a lot more then just the Tesla Superchargers.

Doesn't really matter the size of it. Has little to do with my point.

This just makes Tesla's smaller vehicles in the Model 3 (and future Y) very desirable in other countries because it will have very flexible options in charging where other countries have a more robust build-out of charging stations.
An example: my home country, Finland as of June 2018, public charging locations (both free and paid for):
Type 2 230V locations: 581 (with at least 1370 outlets)
CHADeMO locations. 117
CCS(2) locations: 105
Supercharger locations: 7 (50 outlets total)

Then there are private and semi-public locations in addition to that.

Since June many more new charging locations have opened, and several big new players are entering the field. The fastest growing fast charging type is the EU standard, CCS2. If Tesla wants to succeed in Europe, they have to adopt the common standard instead of trying to rely on their proprietary system.

In the 90s EU adopted common GSM phone/network standard which gave phone makers huge home market advantage at the time and majorly boosted GSM adoption rate. But the US market fractured into several different incompatible mobile phone network standards. That state of affair was only rectified later with 3G/4G standards, that then opened way for common Android and iOS platforms, globally. It was only then when the US catched up with the rest of the world - and by many metrics, went way ahead. Could have happened earlier if not for that fractured market...

People seem to rave about the Supercharger network how that is the best thing since sliced bread, but I think it is starting to hurt US BEV adoption rate... As vehicles from just one manufacturer are able to use them. It's 90s all over again...
 

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Hopefully, Tesla swallows their pride and does the same for the U.S. market. No need to create a brand new, faster standard when they're going to have to retrofit their Superchargers either way. And considering CCS is being built out at a faster rate in the United States than the Superchargers are at this point, it just makes sense.

If Tesla actually makes the switch in the next year or so, they might have another customer. Otherwise, meh.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
CCS(2) locations: 105
Supercharger locations: 7
...
People seem to rave about the Supercharger network how that is the best thing since sliced bread, but I think it is starting to hurt US BEV adoption rate... As vehicles from just one manufacturer are able to use them. It's 90s all over again...
Great post and insight.

The USA is a strange beast in that there is a huge resistance to EVs as people are not motivated because of WAY cheaper gas prices than the rest of the world (as one example). This will go on *decades* longer than non-USA countries.

I think the USA delay and sad adoption of multiple 'stall' per location CCS locations *and* lack of long-range vehicles is also key. Waiting for charging (or unreliable) stations will not be tolerated by the masses by comparison to no-lines at gas stations.

It was a perfect time for Tesla to switch to CCS (2) in Europe (or Non-USA locations) because the Model 3 was not delivered yet. Key difference it seems.

The size of the Model 3 (and Y) are going to make a huge sales difference in non-USA countries. It is a great compromise by all the accolades.

A) Red dot exist.



B) Blue dots crowd-sourced *only* permitted locations.
C) Construction cones in-progress builds (in this winter month!).
 

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Excellent point; however, a month ago Tesla is reportedly making a CCS2 plug for the Model 3, and a CCS2 adapter to fit the Mennekes plug on the S and X; and the existing superchargers would be updated. That way, the Tesla can charge at its own Superchargers and at CCS2 stations.

From electrek:
"A [Tesla] spokesperson sent us the following statement:
“While Tesla owners already have access to the most convenient and reliable charging solutions available between home charging, Supercharging and Destination Charging, we want to expand their ability to charge at third party fast chargers. In advance of Model 3 rollout in Europe, we will be retrofitting our existing Superchargers with dual charge cables to enable Model 3 which will come with a CCS Combo 2 charge port, to use the Tesla Supercharger network. Model S and Model X customers will continue to have full access to the network and a CCS Combo 2 adapter will soon be available to purchase, if desired.”"
An example: my home country, Finland as of June 2018, public charging locations (both free and paid for):
Type 2 230V locations: 581 (with at least 1370 outlets)
CHADeMO locations. 117
CCS(2) locations: 105
Supercharger locations: 7 (50 outlets total)

Then there are private and semi-public locations in addition to that.

Since June many more new charging locations have opened, and several big new players are entering the field. The fastest growing fast charging type is the EU standard, CCS2. If Tesla wants to succeed in Europe, they have to adopt the common standard instead of trying to rely on their proprietary system.

In the 90s EU adopted common GSM phone/network standard which gave phone makers huge home market advantage at the time and majorly boosted GSM adoption rate. But the US market fractured into several different incompatible mobile phone network standards. That state of affair was only rectified later with 3G/4G standards, that then opened way for common Android and iOS platforms, globally. It was only then when the US catched up with the rest of the world - and by many metrics, went way ahead. Could have happened earlier if not for that fractured market...

People seem to rave about the Supercharger network how that is the best thing since sliced bread, but I think it is starting to hurt US BEV adoption rate... As vehicles from just one manufacturer are able to use them. It's 90s all over again...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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It is ironic indeed that Tesla Motors claimed they needed a unique DCFC charging interface because CCS specs could not charge a Tesla.
With 350kW CCS chargers now in the wild, I think that might have been mistaken.
And even more ironic that Tesla never engineered a CCS adapter, but did bother with a CHAdeMO connector. Certainly would have been easier than making all their export cars into dual port variants. Just throw the adapter into export cars.

And after 4+ years, nobody has taken up Tesla Motors offer to make Tesla DCFC sites multi-brand compatible. Odd.
 

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It is ironic indeed that Tesla Motors claimed they needed a unique DCFC charging interface because CCS specs could not charge a Tesla.
With 350kW CCS chargers now in the wild, I think that might have been mistaken.
And even more ironic that Tesla never engineered a CCS adapter, but did bother with a CHAdeMO connector. Certainly would have been easier than making all their export cars into dual port variants. Just throw the adapter into export cars.

And after 4+ years, nobody has taken up Tesla Motors offer to make Tesla DCFC sites multi-brand compatible. Odd.
Really doubling down on the Tesla hate today, huh?

You do realize that Tesla sold Supercharging equipped cars before CCS was announced as a standard, right?

You did notice that CCS was released by a standards body that was largely driven by companies who didn't have real EVs after another standard was already deployed and in use but several other companies, with no real explanation for why that standard wasn't adequate - leading some folks to believe CCS was chosen to stall the early movers and give the companies guiding SAE a chance to catch up?

Since the EU government forced Tesla to CCS, they have committed to a CCS adapter there this year; I'll be very surprised if they don't make a CCS1 version afterwards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
[Qinsp,] Really doubling down on the Tesla hate today, huh?

You do realize that Tesla sold Supercharging equipped cars before CCS was announced as a standard, right? ...
As well I thought that CCS early standards didn't allow for the kW power ratings/charging speeds that Tesla was targeting.

"The prototype implementations for up to 100 kW were shown at EVS26 in Los Angeles in May 2012.[8]"
via: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Charging_System#cite_note-8
 
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