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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Read between the lines:

  • GM bailed out by tax payers
  • GM loaded up Product Development/Engineering
  • Pioneered EV platforms
  • Current EV's no longer, or never intended to be, competitive (compliance cars, test market...)
  • GM understand, with experience, the EV "GAME" (old market, new market, production/processing, costs, ect...)
  • Reducing overhead with plant closures, dropped vehicle lines
  • Clearing dealer lots of small midsize lines - to be replaced with what? ev's, dealer incentivised charging infrastructure???? Already loaded with trucks/SUV's
  • GM aware of large and small competitive actions, plans, rumors (Tesla, VW, BMW, ect...)
  • GM announcement timing and lack of detail (end of year, no real logical path forward provided)
  • Trump posturing himself, as if completely unaware of the GM announcement, sorrow for lost jobs/closure, but they better have something else, soon!


Just saying.....
 

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I'm getting that feeling too, but I can't say I'm following your logic to any conclusion. I'm waiting to hear what goes down in her meeting with Kudlow on Monday (if we hear anything at all that is).

GM announcement timing and lack of detail (end of year, no real logical path forward provided)
That's the part I'm not clear on with her. Is she turning screws, or just plain incompetent? Most of the pundits I hear from are leaning toward the latter ATM.

Some of her other propaganda this year seems disjointed and just vague enough to seem reactive rather than proactive.

Mary makes trucks. The rest of it is treated like a hobby.
 

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Read between the lines:

  • GM bailed out by tax payers
  • GM loaded up Product Development/Engineering
  • Pioneered EV platforms
  • Current EV's no longer, or never intended to be, competitive (compliance cars, test market...)
  • GM understand, with experience, the EV "GAME" (old market, new market, production/processing, costs, ect...)
  • Reducing overhead with plant closures, dropped vehicle lines
  • Clearing dealer lots of small midsize lines - to be replaced with what? ev's, dealer incentivised charging infrastructure???? Already loaded with trucks/SUV's
  • GM aware of large and small competitive actions, plans, rumors (Tesla, VW, BMW, ect...)
  • GM announcement timing and lack of detail (end of year, no real logical path forward provided)
  • Trump posturing himself, as if completely unaware of the GM announcement, sorrow for lost jobs/closure, but they better have something else, soon!

Just saying.....
I am not seeing it. GM blew the greatest lead they could have ever dreamed for. They could have simply owned the market by now if they implemented EREV into their SUVs. Most of us here predicted this, dreamed about it, discussed it, got mad over it, was kind of promised it (MVP? am I remember that right...they SUV Voltec design that never came). Now though, Tesla OWNS the charging infrastructure. Unless Tesla does something really stupid (Hello Musk) they are going to dominate the EV market going forward. Either other brands go in together (highly unlikely) to build a massive alternative charging structure to Tesla or someone goes it alone (highly unlikely as well) Tesla will continue to eat away at Everyone. Very few people will want an EV that can't be charged quickly and reliably as their only car. That pretty much leaves it to Tesla. Killing the EREV without replacing it will prove to be incredibly stupid at this point in history.

Edit, I found it https://www.caranddriver.com/news/chevrolet-volt-mpv5-electric-concept-car-news

Guys this was 2010!!
 

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The US isn't the centre of the universe. The rest of the world is going EV. Either because of pollution (China) or gas prices (Europe from $6.50 to $7.50 a US gallon). Usually legislation is involved to give it a kick start. If the US want to sell outside their borders they are going to have to develop and build EV's (despite gas prices of $2.99). Countries are mandating percentages of new vehicles be zero emissions. The US companies can't afford to be solely ICE manufacturers. As I type this Audi has been repeatedly been advertising their EV on TV saying they didn't invent the EV but they injected their DNA into it. Looks like an SUV along the lines of the iPace.
 

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I am not seeing it. GM blew the greatest lead they could have ever dreamed for. They could have simply owned the market by now if they implemented EREV into their SUVs. Most of us here predicted this, dreamed about it, discussed it, got mad over it, was kind of promised it (MVP? am I remember that right...they SUV Voltec design that never came). Now though, Tesla OWNS the charging infrastructure. Unless Tesla does something really stupid (Hello Musk) they are going to dominate the EV market going forward. Either other brands go in together (highly unlikely) to build a massive alternative charging structure to Tesla or someone goes it alone (highly unlikely as well) Tesla will continue to eat away at Everyone. Very few people will want an EV that can't be charged quickly and reliably as their only car. That pretty much leaves it to Tesla. Killing the EREV without replacing it will prove to be incredibly stupid at this point in history.

Edit, I found it https://www.caranddriver.com/news/chevrolet-volt-mpv5-electric-concept-car-news

Guys this was 2010!!
Right now I'm betting on VW. Something tells me they're not going to dork their electric products like Honda and GM (hello Clarity!). Plus, whether it matters or not (it doesn't matter to me, but....) they're already laying down charging infrastructure. VW is big enough to bury everyone, including GM.
 

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I have no clue what Hank1 is trying to hint at. Maybe he doesn't either.

It's possible Barra is gaming Trump with the plant closings. He reacts, yells, threatens. She comes back, offers to keep the Cruze plant open in exchange for more/better EV tax credits (for upcoming EV's, AV's). He agrees, they both claim victory.
 

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I am not seeing it. GM blew the greatest lead they could have ever dreamed for. They could have simply owned the market by now if they implemented EREV into their SUVs. Most of us here predicted this, dreamed about it, discussed it, got mad over it, was kind of promised it (MVP? am I remember that right...they SUV Voltec design that never came). Now though, Tesla OWNS the charging infrastructure. Unless Tesla does something really stupid (Hello Musk) they are going to dominate the EV market going forward. Either other brands go in together (highly unlikely) to build a massive alternative charging structure to Tesla or someone goes it alone (highly unlikely as well) Tesla will continue to eat away at Everyone. Very few people will want an EV that can't be charged quickly and reliably as their only car. That pretty much leaves it to Tesla. Killing the EREV without replacing it will prove to be incredibly stupid at this point in history.

Edit, I found it https://www.caranddriver.com/news/chevrolet-volt-mpv5-electric-concept-car-news

Guys this was 2010!!
they would have kill it with that, wait, they did
 

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I have no clue what Hank1 is trying to hint at. Maybe he doesn't either.

It's possible Barra is gaming Trump with the plant closings. He reacts, yells, threatens. She comes back, offers to keep the Cruze plant open in exchange for more/better EV tax credits (for upcoming EV's, AV's). He agrees, they both claim victory.
that would not suprise me one bit and drag Canada along with it
 

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Right now I'm betting on VW. Something tells me they're not going to dork their electric products like Honda and GM (hello Clarity!). Plus, whether it matters or not (it doesn't matter to me, but....) they're already laying down charging infrastructure. VW is big enough to bury everyone, including GM.
You may be on to something here. Yeah, VW Group is the largest car company in the world ...
 

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Eh, maybe she's sitting on a pretty big battery breakthrough that will make BEVs affordable/durable.
If that were the case, wouldn't they keep those plants open and use them to make more electrified vehicles?

The simplest explanation to all this is that GM wants to concentrate on making and selling high margin trucks and not be bothered with so many cars. The CAFE rules are supposed to discourage that, but the fines associated with CAFE violations are small and affordable. Or maybe CAFE is going away. On the political side, if CAFE goes away after the plant closings rather than before, the politicians won't have to take the blame for killing those jobs. They can plausibly claim it was due to market forces.
 

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I have no clue what Hank1 is trying to hint at. Maybe he doesn't either.

It's possible Barra is gaming Trump with the plant closings. He reacts, yells, threatens. She comes back, offers to keep the Cruze plant open in exchange for more/better EV tax credits (for upcoming EV's, AV's). He agrees, they both claim victory.
Very good possibility that if Congress extends the EV tax credit or improves it, your analysis may be correct. MB was trying to get the White House to come up with a federal EV policy, but no luck. Ultimately, it's the consumer who will keep EV's alive - and with gas prices staying low, it may take longer to be accepted.
 

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Very good possibility that if Congress extends the EV tax credit or improves it, your analysis may be correct. MB was trying to get the White House to come up with a federal EV policy, but no luck. Ultimately, it's the consumer who will keep EV's alive - and with gas prices staying low, it may take longer to be accepted.
This was my hope as well... that the cancel of the Volt was a play to get the EV credits extended. But I'm not hopeful of that with the other program cancellations. I also have a feeling that some of these cars aren't really dead, but are just going to be imported from other plants overseas (such as the CT6 from China and the Cruze from Mexico) where the already build them. I can't see keeping the Spark and Sonic, but cancelling the Cruze, so I feel they will just start importing them. Same with the CT6... it's not an old design, it's their flagship, and it's selling fairly well for what it is. It also seems like the cancellations are happening too fast to just be a play for anything. A closure of a plant in less than 6 months means they have been planning this for a while. Auto companies don't make moves this quickly.
 

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I have no clue what Hank1 is trying to hint at. Maybe he doesn't either.

It's possible Barra is gaming Trump with the plant closings. He reacts, yells, threatens. She comes back, offers to keep the Cruze plant open in exchange for more/better EV tax credits (for upcoming EV's, AV's). He agrees, they both claim victory.
Not impossible, but I think Barra is too smart to even worry about the two bit bully in the white house. Kudlow is now threatening to mess with the EV credit for GM, but it's all PR since they have no leverage. GM sees the future, and Barra wants to make sure they get there without the need for another government bailout. No one is happy when jobs are lost, and our favorite car is axed, but change is inevitable, and GM certainly has a strategic plan.
 

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A USA Today article dated Nov. 28th today said that they only sold 20,000 Volts this year out of the 100,000 they produced. My local dealer only has 2 new 18s on the lot as of today and I have never seen the Volt in there full page ads they run every week. Most people I have talked to really don't understand what the Volt really is and how it works. I don't think the Volt was ever marketed correctly so people could understand that they could have a car that would give them 60 mpg on average. I have a 64.7 lifetime MPGe average. Chevy needs to market this car correctly so the average person can understand what this car can do!! Rage over and out.

Tow a Volt
 

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Sold all of my GM shares today to lock in some profits. I will only get back in when GM is more clear about exactly what their future plans are. If I don't see some really compelling EV's go into production soon I will pass.
 
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