[Texas]

Ironically your way of thinking actually hurts the US in the long run! It's is hard to understand because you don't like to see jobs going overseas and products being imported. I don't think there are too many cars made today that have a majority of parts fabricated in one country. If every part were made in the US the Volt would probably cost over $100,000. It's hard to argue with the fact that a GM union worker gets paid over $50 an hour (including benefits) while that amount of money can secure the labor of 50 hard-working Chinese workers for the entire day!

Don't worry, there’s a huge and pervasive organization out there (World Trade Organization - WTO) that regulates everything. The US generally gets the best deals because we can throw so much of our weight around. As the rest of the world becomes developed (Of course we have to solve the world's energy problems first) there is that much bigger of a market for the US's cool products.

What does the US do great? I'm thinking: computer software, higher education, airplanes, military products, movies, music, green technology (I hope - unless we continue to drag our feet), Apple products - nobody on earth has the equivalent of Steve Jobs right now, cool fashion - ok the actual products are made in Vietnam but the profits go to the US companies, automobiles (if we get our things together), advanced medical technology, advanced agricultural technology, biotechnology, nanotechnology (very soon this will dwarf just about everything and the US is positioned to make the most - along with Germany and Japan), etc. The list goes on and on.

I feel the US has so much to offer while many other countries have only cheap labor or natural resources to offer. As advanced robotic technologies, sustainable technologies and expensive shipping become reality the US will only get stronger and stronger (if we are smart and don't make huge blunders). Thus, I think you should sleep well and don't hate. Business is the new way humans compete instead of war. Much nicer, don't you think? The loser only feels bad and doesn't get as nice a prize.

I think the US can compete in the world market and be a leader for many generations to come. We have the cool culture, great land resources (including wind, solar, water), and an amazing higher education system that the rest of the world can only dream of duplicating. I'm bullish on globalization!

 

[Texas]

You are incorrect in thinking that it's OK to send manufacturing jobs overseas or somewhere else on our continent. You are also mistaken when you propose that the Volt would need to cost $100k if the majority of it were made in the US. However, you are correct in asserting that a UAW member should probably not be paid the sums that they currently collect. Pensions? Who the heck has a pension anymore besides gov't employees?

As for Apple being a US leader...how many actual, authentic Apple I-Pods do you think have been sold in China? Not many; not many people can afford them. How many rip-off's have been sold there: millions and millions. How many pieces of junk does China sell in the US? Zillions of things. Do you really think that Steve Jobbs is going to save the US economy? Nanotechnology? "Higher" education? Many high-schooled Indians can smoke our college graduates in numerous fields.

Unfortunately, many of the things that you look to for the US' future are related to intellectual property, something that is essentially unenforced in any foreign market. Is INTERPOL going to arrest people infringing on patents? Ha; yeah right!

Take a step out of the ivory tower for a couple minutes here and there; it'll do you good.

Thank you for supporting my arguments. You say I am incorrect but offer no reason why. What kind of argument is that? One I can't debate. Please try again.

Yes. Today there is a huge problem with counterfeit products being sold in underdeveloped nations. They are too poor to afford the real deal, as you mentioned (thank you) and don't have enough money for real enforcement. That’s why globalization is a good thing. Don't you see? When other nations become developed through world trade they become more wealthy and can then afford real products and real enforcement.

Higher education. The last time I checked higher education meant HIGHER than high school. Thanks for the laugh on that one. Yes, our primary education system in the US is a shame. A disgrace if you will. This is one of the things that we need to fix or we will not be able to compete well. If you saw first hand how hard Asian students work you would be frightened. However, that’s no reason to put our heads in the sand and close our boarders. We should be saying, "Heck! We have the best software companies on earth and the biggest budgets imaginable. We will not rest until we use our advanced technology to make our primary education system the world's most advanced." If we took that path nobody could touch us. Not now not for a long time. Of course our government is set up for short-term results and educating a person takes decades. <sigh> If oil doesn't do us in our poor primary education system will. You want fries with that?

The ivory tower dig. Another good one. I'm talking about how the world economies are intertwined and the importance of building economies for greater commerce. Additionally, I'm on the GM-Volt site debating how best to apply technology to help solve our oil problems and you accuse me of being an academic elitist that deals with impractical subject matter? You have got to be kidding me.

 

[Texas]

Nice argument about the quality of Chinese products. That's the same argument people used about the Japanese cars of the 80's.

The cost for a GM only manufactured product is the extra cost of the extremely expensive unionized labor. If the union allowed GM to fully automate factories like the automobile factories in Japan (you would not even believe it) then GM would be just fine. If the union allowed GM to decide what and where to manufacture and how to manufacture for the best price and quality then GM would be fine. You and I both know that GM does not have this freedom. Even though GM would be much stronger and the workers would have better job conditions and security (even if there were far fewer core workers).

Please don't throw up your hands about the lost of manufacturing jobs. As long as we continue to work on our automation technology and robotics technology the US will be fine, as evidenced in the examples you presented.

It is my contention that the percentage of manufacturing jobs with continue to decrease and that is a good thing. Let me explain. The main reason everything is produced at locations where the labor is cheap is because a company gets the product they want at a cheaper price. That includes all the tariffs and transportation fees. If the quality was not good enough people would not buy the products and the producers in America would flourish. That is clearly not the case. Would you agree with that statement for the 50% of the products that Wal-Mart sells (they are made in China)? They may be cheaply made but that is what Americans what! They can go to an expensive department store and get the same toaster made in Germany or America that will last a lifetime but they don’t do it because they are not willing to pay for it! It’s reality.

The agricultural industry is a great model for my theories. In China nearly 80% of the population is engaged in the agricultural industry. What is the percentage in the US? Around 2%. That should be a shocking answer for anyone that did not already know that. Why? Because the US agriculture has the best technology on earth and the process is almost fully automated. Even the giant tractors nearly drive themselves.

The percentage of manufacturing jobs in the US? Around 6%. Huge number, huh? This number will get down to the level of the agricultural industry as automation technology improves. Yes, I’m ok with resting the entire US economy on white collar jobs. It is inevitable because machines will be able to work far faster, longer, cheaper, and with much better quality than humans will be able to. We only use humans for these most tedious jobs because their hands (manipulators) and brains (central processing units) are far superior than anything we can come up with at our present state of technology. This will not last forever. If you watch the advancement of robotic technology around the world you will also come to this simple conclusion. Do not worry, this is not a bad thing. I know it’s not a politically correct thing to talk about and that people are worried about it. If you think that is scary wait until you see what is coming down the pipe with regards to nanotechnology. You might just pull your hair out.

I’m am all for this, if you couldn’t tell already. I don’t think humans should be wasting their time doing repetitive manufacturing tasks. These tasks are not good for the body, soul, development of the mind, etc. Can you argue that? The human brain is the most amazing thing on earth. The things that just one brain can do can profoundly change the entire world, for better or worse. It is sad for me to see how much we waste this most precious resource. Kind of like 5.9 billion out of 6 billion supercomputers sitting in storage with only a small power cord plugged in to keep things warm. I know you are going to tell me that I’m thinking too far in the future and blah blah but sometimes we have to see the forest for the trees. If you act on silly statements like “Buy American” you will put the US on poor footing to compete in the unstoppable global economy. This thinking by the way put the US automobile market many years behind the Japanese automakers. Why? Because the big three were able to pump out cars with less quality and Americans would still buy them. The big three did not have to keep up. This cost them in the long run. It is a basic case study in business school. I know I will never be able to convince you but hopefully others that are reading with an open mind will at least consider weighing both of our views and come up with a conclusion of their own. For that I thank you for your vigorous stand.

 

[Texas]

NLH,

You've ommitted one of the most important categories: taxes to the US gov't. Corporate taxes, income taxes, property taxes, employer contributions to Medicare and Social Security, although the latter two of these could be tossed into the "labor" category...

GM pays waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more to the US gov't compared to Toyota. The US gov't plays a huge role in the American economy, as you undoubtedly know already.

Yes, GM pays a lot of taxes. Exactly. However, imagine the person deciding to buy a <insert other manufacturer here> or GM car. He only sees the quality of the product and the price tag. His decision should not be based on how much taxes GM pays. He will not be thinking, "Yes, it looks like they put less into this car because their labor costs are so expensive and need to compete with <insert other manufacturer here> but at least they pay more to the government and we all benefit in the long-run. LOL! If people thought that far in the future we would not have the problems in the world we have today. Agreed?

About the re-education comment by one of the posters. Our situation will not change overnight. It’s analogous to turning a supertanker. We will have to start from the beginning and wait the decades it takes for change. I’m quite sure the government will not make this happen. It will be some innovative company that invents a new way of educating people using our advanced computer and Internet technologies (that exist today by the way) for more than just amazingly advanced computer games. Even with all this technology we hold the world still teaches the same way it did generations ago. The frame of mind is that a company can’t make money on education products, especially software. What they fail to realize is that they are basing their ideas on the results obtained when early education pioneers placed PCs on the desks of students. These efforts didn’t work. Until a complete system is designed, one that integrates the entire learning experience, great results will not be seen. Some company will crack this nut and I’m thinking it will be fairly soon. Once a workable prototype is tested then the governments of the world will start getting into the game. Not doing so would put their people at a disadvantage. Microsoft, what have you got brewing in your labs? Google? Apple?

 

[Texas]

Interesting discussion. I have a far-out perspective on the subject, a few of you might not be surprised. I truly believe that if a human can walk and talk to normal standards (I'm excluding the mentally handicapped) than that human has the brain power to potentially master just about any subject we currently offer in colleges. This includes doctors, brain surgeons, rocket scientists, engineers, lawyers, etc. Some subjects like art or music I'm not quite convinced because first of all, what is mastery and second of all, it seems like some people have brains that are specifically wired for this (can see a 3D image in their head and go carve it out in stone). Taking out extreme examples and just looking at the potential of people that can walk and talk to normal standards and the current state of our technology I feel confident with my claims.

First of all have any of you tried to learn a language? It takes an amazing amount of effort and time for most people yet almost every small child is able to do it. In fact, every adult is able to do it as well - potentially even faster because they are able to work harder and with greater efficiency while using books and other studying techniques - I disagree with those that say only children can learn). I feel the biggest barrier is not the government, lack of money or time or not enough brain power. I feel the biggest barrier is ourselves. I know that sounds corny but I'm talking specifically of our physiological restraints. The same ones that say to follow another person because you are convinced that doing so would improve your situation. The same restraints that tell you that you are too stupid for anything better and that doing a job you hate is your station in life. If we were to do a poll right now I wonder what percentage of the world's people enjoy their current way of making a living. How many feel fulfilled, challenged, comfortable and proud. I'm guessing that number is very low. Yet the facts are that humans have the most advanced computational system on earth. No other animal or machine is even close.

If a child it told they are stupid (which happens in most schooling environments) and that they should do this or that or that they cannot do something then eventually most will believe it. Of course there is the whole nature or nurture debate and as you can tell I am more on the nurture side. To me the nature side is fully loaded and ready to go. The brain is a 454 V8 sitting on the line with a tank full of alcohol.

The fact is, at our current state of technology, it’s probably necessary for people to under perform. Somebody has to do the dirty work. Right? In the past the people that believed that they were inferior to others would follow strong leaders and build huge armies that could easily kill off a disorganized group of thinkers. So, this is how we got to the situation we are at today. Huge brain potential but great psychological restraints.

For those that think I'm full of it let me ask you this. Let's say tomorrow you simply decide to become a lawyer. No matter what anyone said you decided that you wanted to do it. You were fully aware that you may never get to practice but that you just loved law and wanted to put every ounce of energy into it. From morning till night. Even when you were sleeping you were dreaming about law. The beauty of it... The artistic beauty. Thus, even though you were a drop-out, told by your teachers and parents that you were stupid and that you could not possibly do it you decided to dedicate the rest of your life to the study and practice of law. You currently have a wife and child (even your wife thinks your crazy) and your current job at McDonalds barely covers your expenses. You don't even know where to start! Man, is this a hopeless case or what? It’s my contention that if this man were to dedicate his life and full effort to this task that he would easily have the ability to pass the bar in less than 10 years. I have no doubt in my mind at all. I'm talking Forest Gump like effort and dedication. Think about it. This person can already speak a language and can understand tens of thousands of words and concepts at the blink of an eye. Is memorizing the US legal rules and regulations that much of a stretch in the imagination?

Look at it this way. Take this same person and transport him back in time and have him sit next to the greatest brain in the history of man, Leonardo Da Vinci. That mere McDonalds worker would in fact be the most gifted human on earth. His genius would seem to surpass Leonardo’s by several factors. Poor Leonardo would be drawing up his airplane wings and this McDonald's worker could fold a paper airplane in a minute and make Leonardo look like a fool. Am I wrong? Human genetics take a long time to evolve (tens of thousands of years) so its not like the McDonald’s worker is genetically superior to Leonardo yet he has abilities and understanding that would make him seem god-like.

I just realized I'm sounding like a motivational speaker. You can do it! The fact is, you truly can. Most people have more than enough raw brain power to tackle our simple level of technology. If a McDonald's worker from the future came here tomorrow he would make Einstein look bad in about 15 minutes. If you don't believe me try a small experiment. Pick something easy and dedicate 100 percent of your effort toward it for one week. I think you would be surprised at what you are capable of doing. The reality is the biggest obstacle will be your own psychology. You will tell yourself that you are tired, what are you doing this for, wouldn't you rather watch some TV and eat some delicious foods, etc. Try it and watch yourself hold you back. Priceless.