[nlh_90210]

I get to play devil's advocate for a while

The human mind is a terrible thing to waste. Every time I breeze through the automated toll road lane I am appalled that they still have humans manning the full service lanes. What a waste of human talent performing a job that certainly could be automated. Those people would be far more productive in a white collar job designing the Volt 2.0

Who is going to pay for their re-education. Them? I'm going to guess toll taking wasn't their life's aspiration, yet somehow they ended up there. So I would guess that they can't afford to re-educate themselves and go get that white collar job.

Who'll make change when you get on the toll road and only have a $5 bill? Besides, automation is not as simple as it sounds. You have to have very simple, repeatable, tasks. Humans are very capable when it comes to doing complex tasks, at least compared to machines.

<hr>
For the purposes of this thread It would be nice to see where all of the money goes for say GM and Toyota.

x% to R&D
y% to Labor
z% to management
a% to the board and execs
b% to Share holders
c% to marketing
d% to parts
e% to maintenance and infrastructure
etc..

only then can we really point fingers.

 

[nlh_90210]

yes we need to include that

we should also include the amount that gets paid in taxes, and any tax breaks.

 

[nlh_90210]

This has nothing to do with charity

What happened to the independent spirit in this country? When did we all become so helpless? Yes them. If people want to better their lives with a college degree there several options available to them – grants, scholarships, and low interest education loans – especially if they are low income. Of course, they have to expend a little effort to secure the funds, no one is going to bust down their door and hand them the money. Well, at least not yet. Today, you still have to want to get a degree, and be willing to invest in yourself. Which begs an interesting question, if you're not willing to invest in yourself, why should you expect anyone else to be?

I am not saying they are helpless, I am just saying the opportunity to better them selves is not AS available as you say it is. I agree that there are loan opportunities, but this is no simple process, as there is a chicken/egg paradox since you can't get financing without being in school, but you can't really go to school without financing. This can be overcome, but it basically requires boot strapping yourself up. I know this because I did this. I'm a high school dropout. I got myself into college (with some financial help from my parents), dropped out of college because I wasn't ready, took a couple of years off, went to a community college, transferred to a state school, got into the engineering school and graduated (not even close to the top of my class). I couldn't have done it without student loans.

After I graduated, it took me over 2 years to get a real engineering job. I worked as a tech mostly, but I had to work as a waiter and counter jockey as well (which is where I developed such a contempt the state lottery). Thank god that student loans have a differment plan if you are unemployed or under-employed, because I utilized it.

So yes, opportunities exist, but you shouldn't be so flippant about the simplicity of taking advantage of them. I takes hard work, dedication, time, and support. It takes a tolerance of bureaucracy, and it takes a belief in yourself. It also takes an aptitude and interest of a particular field of study. And the biggest thing, it takes an understanding that it can be done.

For all we know the people taking tolls or tearing tickets at the theater are putting themselves through school. They may also be working to support a family. They may be retired and only work one or two days a week for extra income and something to do.

Maybe someday we all will have decent paying white collar jobs, but it's not going to happen overnight, it's not going to happen with legislation, and it's certainly not going to happen when we get replaced by a robot (or excel macro).

...One final thought. If you ever find yourself saying "get a job" to a homeless person asking you for change. Ask yourself "would you hire them?".

 

[nlh_90210]

It's not as simple as wanting and not wanting

agreed... no homeless debate

My concern is that we look at someone who is doing a menial task and look down upon them saying "they don't want to better themselves". I agree that desire is critical for personal advancement, but it is not sufficient. We both agree that there is money out there for those willing to use it for education. But it does take more than money and desire. Knowing that it is attainable is key, and knowing or figuring out how to get things done is key as well. Our education system is abysmal when it come to actually preparing people for the real world. People need to understand that there is opportunity and how to take advantage of it. Without that, the actual opportunity is wasted.

I am proud of what I did, but I have no illusions that it took a lot of help from my family, my friends, my professors, the student aid association, and the administrative assistants in the college of engineering and mathematics.