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Discussion Starter #1
Our 15month old Volt has been in the shop five times for a total of 39 days for warranty. This qualifies it for replacement or refund under the California Lemon Law.

Aside from the repairs, we very much like the car.

How reliable is the 2017 Volt? Were we unlucky, in which case we would consider a replacement, or should we demand a refund?
 

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My 2017 is now 1 year old with zero issues and 20,000 miles. If there were a rash of problems this would be widely reported on the forum by now.
 

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Out of these 5 trips to the shop has it been in for exactly the same reason? Most lemon laws require multiple attempts to repair the same issue. Separate issues don't qualify. It sounds like you just got a problematic Volt. Fortunately for most of us, that isn't the norm. If in fact you do qualify for replacement/refund, use your judgement but I would personally seek out replacement if possible. The Volt is normally a very reliable car with relatively few issues.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies. It does seem that we have been unlucky.

Note that in our case, there have been four separate problems resulting in the five services. However, under the California code, it doesn't appear that this is matters (emphasis mine below) we meet the 30 day threshold:

1793.22.
(a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Tanner Consumer Protection Act.

(b) It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been made to conform a new motor vehicle to the applicable express warranties if, within 18 months from delivery to the buyer or 18,000 miles on the odometer of the vehicle, whichever occurs first, one or more of the following occurs:

(1) The same nonconformity results in a condition that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven and the nonconformity has been subject to repair two or more times by the manufacturer or its agents, and the buyer or lessee has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(2) The same nonconformity has been subject to repair four or more times by the manufacturer or its agents and the buyer has at least once directly notified the manufacturer of the need for the repair of the nonconformity.

(3) The vehicle is out of service by reason of repair of nonconformities by the manufacturer or its agents for a cumulative total of more than 30 calendar days since delivery of the vehicle to the buyer....
 

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Send the notices. Get the ball rolling. If they fix it and don't fark it up more great if not proceed right when the lemon law period expires.
 

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In my own experience as a Gen 1 and now Gen 2 owner, I've noticed a loss of initial quality control with my Gen 2 (2017). I'm gearing up for my third dealer visit in as many months for my 3-month old car. I've said to GM corporate that they need to get their act together, because I am a vocal proponent of the tech (like many of us) and talk up the car to everyone I know. Heck, I "sold" two Gen 2 volts to my coworkers (who have no issues with theirs btw). The thing is, you never know when that next dealer visit may be your "last" and there's no guarantee that your next Volt will be trouble-free (but chances are high you'll get a winner).

I think you should get more information on what you get by a lemon law return. Is it $$$ for the price of the car - depreciation? A "like kind" (i.e. used) replacement? I don't know enough about the lemon law in CA, but if you're getting a brand new car it might be worth it. If not, then you might just be trading one set of problems for another. I'm sure doing this is a PITA and can expect roadblocks and hassles.

You could also ask GM for some goodwill for all the trouble. Maybe they'll give you a credit for some merchandise (I got one from an extended dealer visit on my Gen 1 for an unusual--and rare--issue that kept it in the shop for 6 weeks). Keep us updated.
 

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Would you mind sharing what were the problems you were having with each of your 5 visits, what was done by your Dealer at that time and if corrected that particular problem?
 

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I think a lot of people are going to run into trouble getting relief under the lemon law if any of the problems are considered trivial. If the brakes don't work, that is one thing, but a few paint imperfections that a typical person would not notice is another thing all together. Not sure what problems you are having.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Our problems were
1) Leaking oil pan (intermittent but copious when occurring) caused by several inches of completely missing caulk. The pan had to be removed and entirely resealed.
2) Blank reversing camera. No problem identified by the dealer, but problem fixed by rebooting the system (this is not a suggested consumer repair, but possibly could be done by briefly disconnecting the 12V battery.) This has happened multiple times, but generally fixes itself after a few days.
3) Check engine light caused by a leaking emission line. This is a recall item, but the parts were unavailable. It was suggested that we not drive the car until the parts became available.
4) Check engine line caused by the very same leaking emission line. We had the second repair done by a different dealer, who told us that the first dealer did visibly do the repair, but probably accidentally reinstalled a leaking hose; the supposedly "new" hose did not have the same markings as their new hoses.
5) Complete electrical failure:
a) A failure to charge, but would run on gas.
b) Next day, the electrical system would not shut down; when the car was turned, off the dashboard stayed lit. Thirty minutes of random manipulations eventually got the the car to turn off.
c) The following day, the car would turn on, but could be not be placed in either forward or reverse. Car had to be towed.
An electrical circuit box of some sort was replaced and the car is now working.

Whether or not one calls these issues trivial (and I don't), the car has been in dealer shops for 39 days since we bought it new in late August of 2016. It is really too bad, because it is a great car otherwise.
 

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Our problems were
1) Leaking oil pan (intermittent but copious when occurring) caused by several inches of completely missing caulk. The pan had to be removed and entirely resealed.
2) Blank reversing camera. No problem identified by the dealer, but problem fixed by rebooting the system (this is not a suggested consumer repair, but possibly could be done by briefly disconnecting the 12V battery.) This has happened multiple times, but generally fixes itself after a few days.
3) Check engine light caused by a leaking emission line. This is a recall item, but the parts were unavailable. It was suggested that we not drive the car until the parts became available.
4) Check engine line caused by the very same leaking emission line. We had the second repair done by a different dealer, who told us that the first dealer did visibly do the repair, but probably accidentally reinstalled a leaking hose; the supposedly "new" hose did not have the same markings as their new hoses.
5) Complete electrical failure:
a) A failure to charge, but would run on gas.
b) Next day, the electrical system would not shut down; when the car was turned, off the dashboard stayed lit. Thirty minutes of random manipulations eventually got the the car to turn off.
c) The following day, the car would turn on, but could be not be placed in either forward or reverse. Car had to be towed.
An electrical circuit box of some sort was replaced and the car is now working.

Whether or not one calls these issues trivial (and I don't), the car has been in dealer shops for 39 days since we bought it new in late August of 2016. It is really too bad, because it is a great car otherwise.
Not trivial at all. But also importantly is the time "out-of-service" for repairs.

Definitely find out what you "get" for doing the lemon law before making any decisions. Despite the repeated issues, you know this car and its faults and have a documented repair record. You may be rolling the dice on a different car.
 

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I think a lot of people are going to run into trouble getting relief under the lemon law if any of the problems are considered trivial. If the brakes don't work, that is one thing, but a few paint imperfections that a typical person would not notice is another thing all together. Not sure what problems you are having.
Actually any paint issue is a slam dunk lemon law/MMWA case. It permanently affects the value and cannot be corrected to factory spec.

I lemoned my volt because it sat for 3 months while my dealer learned to work on a volt. They had to buy a multimeter, they left the windows down when they dropped the hybrid battery so the widows were down for 3 months wrapped in plastic. They destroyed the car. Then when it was finally "fixed" it still had a service charging system message when I got home.

I let them buy me a new ELR.
 

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Actually any paint issue is a slam dunk lemon law/MMWA case. It permanently affects the value and cannot be corrected to factory spec.

I have one little dark blemish the size of a pencil dot. Do I get a new car?

Seems like there has got to be a "reasonable man" test applied to "any paint issue".
 

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Our problems were
1) Leaking oil pan (intermittent but copious when occurring) caused by several inches of completely missing caulk. The pan had to be removed and entirely resealed.
2) Blank reversing camera. No problem identified by the dealer, but problem fixed by rebooting the system (this is not a suggested consumer repair, but possibly could be done by briefly disconnecting the 12V battery.) This has happened multiple times, but generally fixes itself after a few days.
3) Check engine light caused by a leaking emission line. This is a recall item, but the parts were unavailable. It was suggested that we not drive the car until the parts became available.
4) Check engine line caused by the very same leaking emission line. We had the second repair done by a different dealer, who told us that the first dealer did visibly do the repair, but probably accidentally reinstalled a leaking hose; the supposedly "new" hose did not have the same markings as their new hoses.
5) Complete electrical failure:
a) A failure to charge, but would run on gas.
b) Next day, the electrical system would not shut down; when the car was turned, off the dashboard stayed lit. Thirty minutes of random manipulations eventually got the the car to turn off.
c) The following day, the car would turn on, but could be not be placed in either forward or reverse. Car had to be towed.
An electrical circuit box of some sort was replaced and the car is now working.

Whether or not one calls these issues trivial (and I don't), the car has been in dealer shops for 39 days since we bought it new in late August of 2016. It is really too bad, because it is a great car otherwise.
Negotiate a free extension of your warranty...say an extra six months ...:)
 

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Negotiate a free extension of your warranty...say an extra six months ...:)
Great idea, actually. Though, make it 3 years. In GM's eyes, they avoid a lemon law replacement/buyout and if they really trust in their quality, an additional 3 year bumper-to-bumper extension should be a HUGE savings.

VoltenRock makes a good point: if you lemon law you roll the dice again. I traded in my Volt due to engine misfires on acceleration, and MY owners from 2016 and 2018 reported they had the same issues. So getting a new 2018 replacement might just be another roll of the dice with no guarantee they got better in QC.
 

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Great idea, actually. Though, make it 3 years. In GM's eyes, they avoid a lemon law replacement/buyout and if they really trust in their quality, an additional 3 year bumper-to-bumper extension should be a HUGE savings.

VoltenRock makes a good point: if you lemon law you roll the dice again. I traded in my Volt due to engine misfires on acceleration, and MY owners from 2016 and 2018 reported they had the same issues. So getting a new 2018 replacement might just be another roll of the dice with no guarantee they got better in QC.
Well, he could ask for that...:)
 

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I have one little dark blemish the size of a pencil dot. Do I get a new car?

Seems like there has got to be a "reasonable man" test applied to "any paint issue".
It has to cover defects or conditions that substantially impair the use, value or safety. A noticeable blemish that can't be fixed can adversely affect the value of the car or its longevity if the paint cannot properly protect the metal. So yes maybe, but your probably SOL as you have to bring it up with 12-36 months depend on your states lemon law.
 
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