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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited by Moderator)
I am in the market for a Volt Red with the Driver Confidence package ( mainly for the blind spot warning feature )

I am looking at leasing first.

I have a few questions

1)Is it common for the leasing company to keep the Federal tax credit and not pass on a good chunk of it to us?

2)Regarding sales tax in IL, one dealer quoted me a monthly leave payment of 398 for 39 months. The sales tax % is 7%. The tax comes to 1086.54 . The rebates are 3621 and the tax on that is 253.47. Total = 1086.54+253.47 = 1340.01 Their software comes up with a sales tax of 1700. They could not explain the difference. It is not a lot of money but the fact it does not match to the penny bugs me. What am I doing wrong? or are they calculating it wrongly?

Thanks for any insights.
 

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If you adjust your mirrors properly, you won't have a blind spot.
Hint: When was the last time you ran into the side of your car?
 

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I am in the market for a Volt Red with the Driver Confidence package ( mainly for the blind spot warning feature )

I am looking at leasing first.

I have a few questions

1)Is it common for the leasing company to keep the Federal tax credit and not pass on a good chunk of it to us?

2)Regarding sales tax in IL, one dealer quoted me a monthly leave payment of 398 for 39 months. The sales tax % is 7%. The tax comes to 1086.54 . The rebates are 3621 and the tax on that is 253.47. Total = 1086.54+253.47 = 1340.01 Their software comes up with a sales tax of 1700. They could not explain the difference. It is not a lot of money but the fact it does not match to the penny bugs me. What am I doing wrong? or are they calculating it wrongly?

Thanks for any insights.
Yes - find another dealership. If the dealership can't explain how they get the sales tax value then they're very likely doing something wrong.

Also, don't lease - leasing is actually more expensive than putting a car on a credit card.
 

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I don't know the mileage that you are going for, but that doesn't seem like a good lease rate. I'd consider buying the volt instead of leasing. The warranty on the Voltec system really protects you from most major expenses for 8 years/100,000 miles, so unless you have to have a new car every couple years, it's probably better to buy. Or consider buying a Certified Pre-Owned Volt like I did. Considering there is no maintenance required except 1-2 oil changes in the first 3 years, you aren't likely to get a car that has been neglected. I lease our SUV because I get a GM employee discount, we always drive just under 12,000 miles a year on it, and the residuals are high so I can get a great deal (Our well equipped 2017 Acadia with an MSRP of $40k is being leased and my payment is $280 including tax with 0 down), but I buy my car and drive it for 8-9 years. I like our SUV to be fairly new because we use it for trips and towing and the side benefit is that it keeps my wife happy.

Leasing isn't usually a good deal, but there are good deals out there. I probably wouldn't consider leasing the Volt unless I could get it for under $250 a month with 0 down. The cheap leases for GM right now seem to be the Buick Encore and GMC Terrain, which are frequently advertised around here for $99-129 a month with $1000 down for a 10k mile per year lease.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Quite true that if I want to keep the car for 5 years or longer, it makes sense to buy. That breakeven year depends on how great the lease deal it is. Some lease deals in CA the breakeven year is like 15 which is insane. But for most leases, it is less than 7 so it makes sense to own it.

The people who convinced me to lease used the following arguments

1. For EV, the technology is moving fast and at this stage in the evolution, used cars will not have much value since they will have to compete with new cars that are a lot more capable. Let the lease company take the risk. This is the most convincing thing for me. They also tell me that I would not be able to sell it to the dealer for the same residual value as in the lease.

2. When car manufacturers want to move cars, they do not want to reduce the selling price but offer rebates. Stacking many rebates together at a time when the manufacturer is motivated to move the cars results in some great deals like $240 a month for a base Volt LT. ( rare but happens )

3. But this federal tax credit of 7500 plays havoc with that equation. If the leasing company does not pass a good chunk of it as rebates or increase in the residual, it is hard to compete with a buy

For example, currently the best I see for a Volt LT for 36 months is $282 with 0 drive off in CA. That is $10K outlay. But a great buying price of 30500 plus taxes minus 7500 credit stats you off at around 25K. If I can sell the car for more than 15K I am better off. That seems to be possible at today's rates.

This leads to another question. What lease rate ( with 0 down ) for a Volt is a no brainer compared to buying? I can get the Volt I am interested in ( LT + Red + confidence package 1 ) for $34K .
 

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Quite true that if I want to keep the car for 5 years or longer, it makes sense to buy. That breakeven year depends on how great the lease deal it is. Some lease deals in CA the breakeven year is like 15 which is insane. But for most leases, it is less than 7 so it makes sense to own it.

The people who convinced me to lease used the following arguments

1. For EV, the technology is moving fast and at this stage in the evolution, used cars will not have much value since they will have to compete with new cars that are a lot more capable. Let the lease company take the risk. This is the most convincing thing for me. They also tell me that I would not be able to sell it to the dealer for the same residual value as in the lease.

2. When car manufacturers want to move cars, they do not want to reduce the selling price but offer rebates. Stacking many rebates together at a time when the manufacturer is motivated to move the cars results in some great deals like $240 a month for a base Volt LT. ( rare but happens )

3. But this federal tax credit of 7500 plays havoc with that equation. If the leasing company does not pass a good chunk of it as rebates or increase in the residual, it is hard to compete with a buy

For example, currently the best I see for a Volt LT for 36 months is $282 with 0 drive off in CA. That is $10K outlay. But a great buying price of 30500 plus taxes minus 7500 credit stats you off at around 25K. If I can sell the car for more than 15K I am better off. That seems to be possible at today's rates.

This leads to another question. What lease rate ( with 0 down ) for a Volt is a no brainer compared to buying? I can get the Volt I am interested in ( LT + Red + confidence package 1 ) for $34K .
How many miles do you drive in a year? Just my commute puts me at 15K miles in a year. Higher mileage leases are definitely more expensive.

Resale value of a car means very little for those of us who like to drive them till the wheels fall off.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
8000 miles yearly is plenty for daily commute plus 2000 for any weekend trips, so 10000 is totally fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I also looked at used Volt.. There also the Federal tax credit distorts the picture

Here is one I looked at yesterday

Summary.
2017 Volt Premiere Red with blind spot detector and parking assist. 12000 miles
The car looks clean and drives well. It is a CPO

Since the price did not change between 2017 and 2018, here is the comp between a new volt premiere

New:

MSRP : 39335
Employee price : 36577
With Tax: 39137
Fed Tax credit: 7500
After Fed Tax credit : 31637

Used
Lowest the dealer will go: 26386
With tax: 28233

Diff: 31637 - 28233 = 3404

Is it worth it for a net reduction of $3404?
If not, what will be a good difference to ask for?
 
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That $3400 could buy a 65" OLED TV. What's that worth to you? In one year they will be both used and you will still have the TV.:p
 

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I don't know the mileage that you are going for, but that doesn't seem like a good lease rate. I'd consider buying the volt instead of leasing. The warranty on the Voltec system really protects you from most major expenses for 8 years/100,000 miles, so unless you have to have a new car every couple years, it's probably better to buy. Or consider buying a Certified Pre-Owned Volt like I did. Considering there is no maintenance required except 1-2 oil changes in the first 3 years, you aren't likely to get a car that has been neglected. I lease our SUV because I get a GM employee discount, we always drive just under 12,000 miles a year on it, and the residuals are high so I can get a great deal (Our well equipped 2017 Acadia with an MSRP of $40k is being leased and my payment is $280 including tax with 0 down), but I buy my car and drive it for 8-9 years. I like our SUV to be fairly new because we use it for trips and towing and the side benefit is that it keeps my wife happy.

Leasing isn't usually a good deal, but there are good deals out there. I probably wouldn't consider leasing the Volt unless I could get it for under $250 a month with 0 down. The cheap leases for GM right now seem to be the Buick Encore and GMC Terrain, which are frequently advertised around here for $99-129 a month with $1000 down for a 10k mile per year lease.
NOT SO FAST. You did not read my thread I started 2 weeks or so agao. DO NOT ASSUME voltec warranty covers what you think it covers. I am fighting with GM and working with my dealer to cover the harness high voltage wire part of $90 that is clearly stated in the voltec extended warranty as covered yet for 4 weeks now I have been arguing with them and now back to the dealer to go to bat to recover the $840 cost..yes 840 bucks after diagnostic 3 hours and 2hrs install and it conencts the charge port to the module from driver side of the car to the passenger side in the engine area around the fiewall. I have the dealer round 2 going to bat for me against GM to recover the cost. I would consider 840 bucks a major expense considering were talking about a 24v0 extension cord installation!
 

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8000 miles yearly is plenty for daily commute plus 2000 for any weekend trips, so 10000 is totally fine.
One “problem” with the volt is that it is such a pleasure to drive, not consuming a drop of fuel, you will find lots of reasons to take it out for a spin, causing your mileage to creep up from any estimate.

I’m so proud of all the new crop Greenback trolls trying to ward you off from leasing, so that i no longer have to carry that gauntlet. My favorite lease is the 100% down, $0 per month, unlimited miles, unlimited term lease. If you cannot afford that, you cannot afford the car. Far too many people think that if they can afford the lease payment, they can afford the car, but it causes you to spend more and sooner than you really should, in exchange for a lifetime of payments. The only time leasing makes sense is if you are a multimillionaire and you can afford to throw away money. And even then, you can afford to just buy the car.
 
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The only time leasing makes sense is if you are a multimillionaire and you can afford to throw away money.
I would say that leasing makes sense if the car will be used as a part of your business and you can write off the lease cost with your business taxes. That way, you're always driving a near new, very reliable vehicle and the high costs don't matter to you at all

Don
 

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I would say that leasing makes sense if the car will be used as a part of your business and you can write off the lease cost with your business taxes. That way, you're always driving a near new, very reliable vehicle and the high costs don't matter to you at all

Don
But the cost does matter as it affects your business’ bottom line, especially if you own your own business. I fill out a schedule C every year for my side business, and even though you get to write off the expense before getting taxed, and assuming you were in a 28% tax bracket, it is not wise to spend 199% to save 28%.

Now if the business was owned by somebody else, and they were willing to pay your vehicular expenses as a company benefit, then I’d take the benefit if they were holding the lease. But if they are reimbursing you to hold the lease, guess what happens if they fire you or close down the business, you are left holding the lease. Alas,most companies will fund something like a Ford Fusion or Toyota Camry, sometimes a pickup if you are in construction and need it, but they probably aren’t going to let you have a Tesla or mustang or other cool car.

And if I owned the business and used the business to fund a bunch of cool cars, it might be over the edge of a legal tax write off unless your business is in the luxury vehicle leasing, car shows, or customization business. The IRS might view a software guy drivin aroudn in a crazy car as a non-prudent expense and not allow it. A volt will probably pass the common sense test, but a BMW i8 might be overboard.
 

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I would say that leasing makes sense if the car will be used as a part of your business and you can write off the lease cost with your business taxes. That way, you're always driving a near new, very reliable vehicle and the high costs don't matter to you at all

Don
Agreed,better the money be spent on yourself than give it to a wasteful government.
 
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