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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, all! I just joined this forum, but I hope to own a GM Volt very soon!

I live in a state (Michigan) that will not be getting the 2016 Volts. I don't want to wait until the 2017 Volts arrive, so I am trying to buy a 2015. I want to get the car ASAP, because many of the incentives are only good until January 4. Also, I will try to get the "Chevy Loyalty" cash on a second car, if I can qualify before the January 4 deadline -- that is a great deal!

GM is currently offering a "National Lease Deal" of $254 a month for 39 months with $500 cash down at signing. This is for a "ultra-low mileage" allowance of 10,000 miles a year.

I have contacted eight dealers, including several that have 2015 Volts sitting on their lots, and only one was willing to come close to the advertised National Lease Deal. He quoted me a price for a base model with heated seats as the only optional upgrade. The MSRP is $35,370 including $200 surcharge for the heated seats. I was quoted a price of $255, which sounds very close to the National Lease Deal, but I see that the dealer has "padded" the deal with about an extra $350 dollars profit. That is, his quote assumed I can get the $500 competitive lease rebate, which I actually do not qualify for. If I did qualify for this extra $500 rebate, it is supposed to reduce the cash down to $0, plus a charge for optional upgrades. Since the car has $200 in options and the options have a residual of around $50, this rebate should reduce the cash down to around $150. But instead of $150 cash down, he is still quoting me $500 cash down.

I think getting close to the National Lease Deal, with just an extra $350 cash down, is a very good price. What do others here think?

There are also taxes and fees added to the cash required at signing. Most of these look fine, but there is a "6% upfront state tax" charge of $653.94, which I don't understand. I thought Michigan did not charge sales tax on the residual value. Also, the residual value quoted is $13,086 and 6% of $13,086 is $785.16, not $653.94. I am wondering if the "tax" of $653.94 is actually a bogus charge to add more profit. Does anyone know what this charge might be? (I have also emailed the dealer and asked about it.)

If the $653.94 is a bogus charge, then the deal is actually about $1000 more than the National Lease Deal. I'm not sure if that is a decent price or not. Again, what do people here think?

Assuming I can get the $653.94 tax explained to my satisfaction, I am willing take this deal. But, I have various other rebates/incentives available to me, which I have not yet mentioned to the dealer. These incentives can't be combined, so I need help figuring out which incentive is best.

The first possible incentive is GM Employee pricing. (Did I mention that I live in Michigan? :) ) My sister-in-law works for GM. (I have another sister-in-law who works for Chrysler, but Chrysler doesn't have an electric car!)

The second possible incentive is a *very* old GM credit card that has $2000 in rebates available. I can apply the entire $2000 as a cash down payment, but the $2000 can't be combined with supplier or employee pricing. I'm not sure whether $2000 as cash down would be better than employee pricing or not. Making things more complicated is that I if a buy a Cruze, I will want to use the $2000 in GM card rebates on the Cruze and not the Volt. (The Cruze is a cheaper car and therefore has a smaller employee discount than the Volt.)

A third possible incentive is to use Costco. I qualify for their "supplier pricing and a $700 Costco card" deal. I also am a credit union member, and GM currently has a targeted $750 rebate for credit union members. This offer explicitly says it can be combined with supplier (but not employee) pricing. However, I'm not sure if the credit union offer can be combined with the supplier pricing and the $700 Costco card. And, if they can be combined, I'm still not sure this would be better than employee pricing.

Decisions, decisions! I don't want to ask the dealer which of the three incentives is best, because I'm sure they will choose the incentive that is best for them.

I am very glad to have found this forum, and any information will be appreciated.
 

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Personally, with the way the Volt drives & feels, and the savings from reduced gasoline use and maintenance during the lease (oil changes) I wouldn't sweat the $350. You'll never look back. ;)
 

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Hello, all! I just joined this forum, but I hope to own a GM Volt very soon!

I live in a state (Michigan) that will not be getting the 2016 Volts. I don't want to wait until the 2017 Volts arrive, so I am trying to buy a 2015. I want to get the car ASAP, because many of the incentives are only good until January 4. Also, I will try to get the "Chevy Loyalty" cash on a second car, if I can qualify before the January 4 deadline -- that is a great deal!

GM is currently offering a "National Lease Deal" of $254 a month for 39 months with $500 cash down at signing. This is for a "ultra-low mileage" allowance of 10,000 miles a year.

I have contacted eight dealers, including several that have 2015 Volts sitting on their lots, and only one was willing to come close to the advertised National Lease Deal. He quoted me a price for a base model with heated seats as the only optional upgrade. The MSRP is $35,370 including $200 surcharge for the heated seats. I was quoted a price of $255, which sounds very close to the National Lease Deal, but I see that the dealer has "padded" the deal with about an extra $350 dollars profit. That is, his quote assumed I can get the $500 competitive lease rebate, which I actually do not qualify for. If I did qualify for this extra $500 rebate, it is supposed to reduce the cash down to $0, plus a charge for optional upgrades. Since the car has $200 in options and the options have a residual of around $50, this rebate should reduce the cash down to around $150. But instead of $150 cash down, he is still quoting me $500 cash down.

I think getting close to the National Lease Deal, with just an extra $350 cash down, is a very good price. What do others here think?

There are also taxes and fees added to the cash required at signing. Most of these look fine, but there is a "6% upfront state tax" charge of $653.94, which I don't understand. I thought Michigan did not charge sales tax on the residual value. Also, the residual value quoted is $13,086 and 6% of $13,086 is $785.16, not $653.94. I am wondering if the "tax" of $653.94 is actually a bogus charge to add more profit. Does anyone know what this charge might be? (I have also emailed the dealer and asked about it.)

If the $653.94 is a bogus charge, then the deal is actually about $1000 more than the National Lease Deal. I'm not sure if that is a decent price or not. Again, what do people here think?

Assuming I can get the $653.94 tax explained to my satisfaction, I am willing take this deal. But, I have various other rebates/incentives available to me, which I have not yet mentioned to the dealer. These incentives can't be combined, so I need help figuring out which incentive is best.

The first possible incentive is GM Employee pricing. (Did I mention that I live in Michigan? :) ) My sister-in-law works for GM. (I have another sister-in-law who works for Chrysler, but Chrysler doesn't have an electric car!)

The second possible incentive is a *very* old GM credit card that has $2000 in rebates available. I can apply the entire $2000 as a cash down payment, but the $2000 can't be combined with supplier or employee pricing. I'm not sure whether $2000 as cash down would be better than employee pricing or not. Making things more complicated is that I if a buy a Cruze, I will want to use the $2000 in GM card rebates on the Cruze and not the Volt. (The Cruze is a cheaper car and therefore has a smaller employee discount than the Volt.)

A third possible incentive is to use Costco. I qualify for their "supplier pricing and a $700 Costco card" deal. I also am a credit union member, and GM currently has a targeted $750 rebate for credit union members. This offer explicitly says it can be combined with supplier (but not employee) pricing. However, I'm not sure if the credit union offer can be combined with the supplier pricing and the $700 Costco card. And, if they can be combined, I'm still not sure this would be better than employee pricing.

Decisions, decisions! I don't want to ask the dealer which of the three incentives is best, because I'm sure they will choose the incentive that is best for them.

I am very glad to have found this forum, and any information will be appreciated.
I can help you out, but I need the sale price of that Volt before incentives.

Also, the $653.94 in upfront tax is the tax on the leasing incentives for a '15 Volt (currently $10,225!)....you have to pay tax on any incentives/rebates. According to my calculations and assuming 6% tax, you are receiving $10,900 in total leasing incentives (653.94/.06 = 10,900)...so somewhere you are getting an additional $675 in rebates.

Upon first glance, I am thinking going with Costco supplier pricing + $700 Costco card + $2k in GM card earnings (you CAN use them with Costco pricing....I just did to lease a Cruze 2 weeks ago) would be the best overall deal. If you want to save the GM card earnings for a Cruze, then I think employee pricing would be best.

On 2nd take, if that $254 quote from the dealer is all in (with just $500 down), that is actually better than even employee pricing. According to my numbers, an employee pricing lease deal with $500 down would be $256 a month...and that doesn't include TTL (tax, title, license fees, dealer fees, etc...)

I see there is $10,225 in leasing cash, .00025 money factor, and 37% residual on a 39 month '15 Volt lease.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Personally, with the way the Volt drives & feels, and the savings from reduced gasoline use and maintenance during the lease (oil changes) I wouldn't sweat the $350. You'll never look back. ;)
Thanks! I am very excited about this deal.

I can help you out, but I need the sale price of that Volt before incentives.

Also, the $653.94 in upfront tax is the tax on the leasing incentives for a '15 Volt (currently $10,225!)....you have to pay tax on any incentives/rebates. According to my calculations and assuming 6% tax, you are receiving $10,900 in total leasing incentives (653.94/.06 = 10,900)...so somewhere you are getting an additional $675 in rebates.....
Wow, thank you, that is tremendously helpful!

The explanation about the extra sales tax makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered that rebates are technically money back after the purchase, so the sales tax would be calculated on the price before rebates.

I'm pretty sure my type of GM Card rebate can't be combined with a supplier discount. So, doing the GM Card cash plus the Costco deal is probably out. But, from your calculations, it sounds like the price I was quoted is a better deal, anyway.

I don't think the dealer ever told me the actual sales price. Here are all of the numbers:

State: MI County: STATE INCLUSIVE
Lease Term: 39
Total Payment: 271.21
Out of Pocket: 1122.15 With plate transfer
MSRP: 35,370.00
Residual: 13,086.90
Mileage: 10,000

Payment Details
Term 39
Base Payment 255.86
Total Payment 271.21
Purchase Option 13,086.90
MSRP 35,370.00
Est. Miles Per Year 10,000
Disposition Fee 395.00
Excess Mileage Charge 0.25

Amount Due at Signing
1st Month Payment 271.21
Fees & Insurance 197.00
Upfront Taxes 653.94
Total Inception Fees 1,122.15
Rebate as Cap Reduction 10,725.00
Total Drive Off 11,847.15

By the way, your analysis makes me think that these "National Lease Deals" are mostly a bait-and-switch. If the dealer quoted me $350 cash down more than the National Lease Deal, and his price is as good as (or better than) Employee pricing, then I'm guessing no dealer ever actually offers the advertised National Lease Deal price.

Also, I wonder: maybe to get the price so low, the dealer is somehow telling GM we qualify for Employee pricing, even though we haven't told him we qualify? I've decided I *do* want to use my $2000 GM card earnings for this deal, rather than waiting and maybe applying it to the purchase of a Cruze. (A bird in the hand, etc.) If the dealer is telling GM we qualify for Employee pricing, then we may have trouble applying the GM card earnings.

Thanks again for your help, and for any additional insights you can give me!
 

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I'm constantly confused about the $395 disposition fee, specifically if the lender is GM Financial. According to their latest policy manual (May, 2015), the disposition fee should be $0. After talking with many dealers while trying to get a Cruze, most of them argue with me about this and insist that that the fee has to be charged and is a bank fee, not a dealer fee. Even after I send them a link to the manual, they're confused and don't believe it. I ended up getting a Cruze from CA and the dealer didn't charge me a disposition fee.

I would show them the manual and try to get that fee waived if the lender is GMF.
 

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Thanks! I am very excited about this deal.

Wow, thank you, that is tremendously helpful!

The explanation about the extra sales tax makes perfect sense. I hadn't considered that rebates are technically money back after the purchase, so the sales tax would be calculated on the price before rebates.

I'm pretty sure my type of GM Card rebate can't be combined with a supplier discount. So, doing the GM Card cash plus the Costco deal is probably out. But, from your calculations, it sounds like the price I was quoted is a better deal, anyway.

I don't think the dealer ever told me the actual sales price. Here are all of the numbers:

State: MI County: STATE INCLUSIVE
Lease Term: 39
Total Payment: 271.21
Out of Pocket: 1122.15 With plate transfer
MSRP: 35,370.00
Residual: 13,086.90
Mileage: 10,000

Payment Details
Term 39
Base Payment 255.86
Total Payment 271.21
Purchase Option 13,086.90
MSRP 35,370.00
Est. Miles Per Year 10,000
Disposition Fee 395.00
Excess Mileage Charge 0.25

Amount Due at Signing
1st Month Payment 271.21
Fees & Insurance 197.00
Upfront Taxes 653.94
Total Inception Fees 1,122.15
Rebate as Cap Reduction 10,725.00
Total Drive Off 11,847.15

By the way, your analysis makes me think that these "National Lease Deals" are mostly a bait-and-switch. If the dealer quoted me $350 cash down more than the National Lease Deal, and his price is as good as (or better than) Employee pricing, then I'm guessing no dealer ever actually offers the advertised National Lease Deal price.

Also, I wonder: maybe to get the price so low, the dealer is somehow telling GM we qualify for Employee pricing, even though we haven't told him we qualify? I've decided I *do* want to use my $2000 GM card earnings for this deal, rather than waiting and maybe applying it to the purchase of a Cruze. (A bird in the hand, etc.) If the dealer is telling GM we qualify for Employee pricing, then we may have trouble applying the GM card earnings.

Thanks again for your help, and for any additional insights you can give me!
So the cap reduction (10,725) counts your $500 downpayment? Is that right?

Also, any particular reason you are going with 39 months instead of 36? 36 would be about $10/month more expensive, but then you don't have to pony up another year's registration, 3 months of insurance, and pay for any problems that occur between months 36 and 39.

Ok, assuming you listed all the fees the dealer is charging, I managed to reverse engineer a pre-incentive sale price of $31,995. So the price the dealer is giving you is even better than employee pricing....by almost $1,000. He must be really motivated to offload that Volt.

If you factor in $2k in GM card earnings (and stick with the $500 down), that will knock your monthly down to about $216, give or take a few bucks. You probably have to factor in taxes on the $2k GM card earnings.

volt lease1.jpg
volt lease2.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Mileage allowance upgrade cost?

I thought of another question! The price I was quoted was for the "ultra-low mileage" lease, which allows only 10,000 miles a year. I doubt that will be enough miles. What is a reasonable price to pay for an upgrade to 12,000 or 15,000 miles a year? This is a 39-month lease. So, going to a 12,000 mile lease would mean 6500 extra miles over the term of the lease, and 15,000 miles would be 16250 extra miles.
 

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I thought of another question! The price I was quoted was for the "ultra-low mileage" lease, which allows only 10,000 miles a year. I doubt that will be enough miles. What is a reasonable price to pay for an upgrade to 12,000 or 15,000 miles a year? This is a 39-month lease. So, going to a 12,000 mile lease would mean 6500 extra miles over the term of the lease, and 15,000 miles would be 16250 extra miles.
12k would be about $9 extra a month, with 15k being about $27 more a month (compared to 10k)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Bro1999, I didn't see your reply until now. Thank you again!

So the cap reduction (10,725) counts your $500 downpayment? Is that right?
The extra $500 in the cap reduction is because the dealer included a $500 rebate that I don't qualify for. So, I will have to make an extra payment of $500 at signing, above what the dealer quoted.

Also, any particular reason you are going with 39 months instead of 36? 36 would be about $10/month more expensive, but then you don't have to pony up another year's registration, 3 months of insurance, and pay for any problems that occur between months 36 and 39.
No reason, other than 39 months was what GM was advertising. Your reasons for going with 36 months make a lot of sense, and I will ask the dealer to redo the quote for 36 months.

Thanks! So glad I found this forum!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm constantly confused about the $395 disposition fee, specifically if the lender is GM Financial. According to their latest policy manual (May, 2015), the disposition fee should be $0. After talking with many dealers while trying to get a Cruze, most of them argue with me about this and insist that that the fee has to be charged and is a bank fee, not a dealer fee. Even after I send them a link to the manual, they're confused and don't believe it. I ended up getting a Cruze from CA and the dealer didn't charge me a disposition fee.

I would show them the manual and try to get that fee waived if the lender is GMF.
Thanks -- I will keep that in mind if I also buy a Cruze.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
12k would be about $9 extra a month, with 15k being about $27 more a month (compared to 10k)
So, I calculate additional price per mile is about 5.6 cents with a 12k lease, and 6.5 cents with a 15 k lease. That is a huge discount off the after-lease excess mileage charge of 25 cents per mile. Since I don't really know how many miles I'll drive, it sounds like 15k is the way to go.

Does it matter to the dealer how many miles I select, or how long (39 months vs. 36) the lease term is? In other words, does dealer profit depend on the length and mileage of the lease? I'm guessing the answer is no (and these factors just affect the residual, not anything else about the deal), but I'm not sure.


Ok, assuming you listed all the fees the dealer is charging, I managed to reverse engineer a pre-incentive sale price of $31,995. So the price the dealer is giving you is even better than employee pricing....by almost $1,000. He must be really motivated to offload that Volt.
The funny thing is, he doesn't even have a new Volt sitting on his lot. So, I am guessing he has an arrangement with some other dealer who wants to offload a Volt, or he is trying to meet a year-end sales quota. (Or both.) These are the only explanations I can think of.


If you factor in $2k in GM card earnings (and stick with the $500 down), that will knock your monthly down to about $216, give or take a few bucks. You probably have to factor in taxes on the $2k GM card earnings.
I'm sure you are right about the taxes.

About the GM Card earnings, the T&C of my GM Card say I can negotiate with the dealer, get their best price, then use my GM Card earnings as a down payment. The only discounts that can not be combined are Supplier pricing and Employee pricing. I'm concerned though, that the dealer may have told GM that I have a Supplier or Employer discount, and refuse to apply my GM Card earnings. In that case, I may have to call GM Card customer support and complain. That might "burn my bridges" with this particular dealer, which I'd rather not do. I'm considering offering the dealer an extra $500 or so if they will let me apply my GM Card earnings without a fuss.
 

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I used my GM card earnings with Costco supplier pricing.....which is just supplier pricing, so you should be fine too. After you get the final numbers, just go "oh, I'm planning to use my GM card earnings too"
They just get a check for the earnings redeemed, so doesn't affect their bottom line at all.
In fact, I'd mention the Costco pricing and see if they could offer the same numbers....that way you can get the Costco card too...AND still use your GM earnings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Bro1999, do you have the BuyPower card? That has different limitations from my GM Card. I have the "Blue Gold" card, which was issued in the early 1990s. I suspect hardly anyone has that type of card anymore. I first used my "earnings reward" for $1800 cash down on a Geo Prizm in 1995.

I called GM Card customer service, and they said the supplier discount couldn't be used with it. However, they said they weren't sure about the Costco discount, as that may use a different code. So, I've now upgraded my Costco membership to Executive and will try for the $700 Costco rebate, too.
 
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