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Discussion Starter #1
I am on a hourly meter electric so my charge for electric changes every hour. I was wondering how many kilowatts are needed to recharge a 2012 Volt battery that is run down? Reason I am asking is that when recharging at night I see sometimes my electric is as low as -.01 cents per KWh and might go up to +.02 cents per KWh at the highest. It usually takes around 3 hours on my Clipper creek 220 unit. I have seen it at a record low of -16 cents per KWh. I am in suburb of Chicago on ComEd electric.
 

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Ballpark about 12, but to be safe round it up to 13. This is to FULLY charge an empty battery.
 

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How in the world do you get paid 16 cents per kWh to use electricity? If there were some way for a computer to check the hourly prices, I could see investing in some powerwalls to snag -0.16 or any negative rate charging times to fill the battery, then turn around and use it whenever you need it.

For a 2012, 9.6 kWh is the battery's capacity from empty to full. There are charging losses, so estimate 11-13 kWh. If it is really cold or really hot the car will use heat or AC to keep the battery in good shape.
 

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How in the world do you get paid 16 cents per kWh to use electricity? If there were some way for a computer to check the hourly prices, I could see investing in some powerwalls to snag -0.16 or any negative rate charging times to fill the battery, then turn around and use it whenever you need it.

For a 2012, 9.6 kWh is the battery's capacity from empty to full. There are charging losses, so estimate 11-13 kWh. If it is really cold or really hot the car will use heat or AC to keep the battery in good shape.
I suspect his area has feed from something like nuclear power stations that can't be "ramped down" during low demand. If you are making more power than there is demand on your portion of the electric grid you sell it at a loss to get other portions of the grid to cut back on production and balance the supply and demand.

Keith
 

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I suspect his area has feed from something like nuclear power stations that can't be "ramped down" during low demand. If you are making more power than there is demand on your portion of the electric grid you sell it at a loss to get other portions of the grid to cut back on production and balance the supply and demand.

Keith
I used to live in Chicagoland a couple decades ago. This must be something new. Although I have a nuclear power plant less than 30 miles away from me, I've never seen hourly rates like this. If I had something like this, I'd be making spreadsheets to see if I could possibly use a powerwall to capture the electricity as they pay me. I'd have a bunch of tablets throughout the house monitoring the power rates, and maybe even create an arduino or Edison device to take appropriate charging/no charging actions. Heck, start a company that just houses a big bank of batteries in a warehouse for some company that always uses electricity and arbitrage the system, soaking in power when ComEd pays you, then selling that power at a discount to the consumer.
 

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I've been keeping a log for the last 2 months of my KWh used via a Kill-A-Watt meter between the wall outlet and my OEM EVSE - It takes my 2015 approx 12.7KWh from an empty to full battery. If I remember correctly, my useful capacity on a 2015 is 11.3KWh.
 

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I thought a full batter was 14.5 or so? A full unusable capacity of 18?
Your numbers are good for a gen2 (14.4 / 18.4 kWh), the OP posted in the gen1 forum so he was given the numbers for gen1. Roughly, you can multiply the usable capacity times 1.15 or 1.2 to account for losses, thus 10.5 x 1.2 = 12.6 kWh to charge an empty gen1. I've seen it take a little more in cold weather, but that's a decent number.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
When I signed up for the hourly rate and hourly meter the info I got was just as "fourdoor" said. ConEd has a excess because they do not want to shut down and restart plants. They just let them run because demand will be going up soon. I can see what I am paying by the hr or every 5 minutes if I choose. I charge up in the Am so it's finished by 5 o'clock am. Usually never over 2.5 cents per KWh but last nite was right around .01 cents per KWh. The lowest was -.16 cents. The price during the day is usually all over the place and up to plus .18 cents per kWh. Just me and the wife here so we do not use a lot of electric during the day.
 

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Wow...and I thought I had an awesome deal here in Arizona @ roughly 4.5 cents/KWh at night, lol Though we do have a nuke plant here, we also have multiple fossil plants, so I suspect those can be ramped up and down as needed.
 

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I used to live in Chicagoland a couple decades ago. This must be something new. Although I have a nuclear power plant less than 30 miles away from me, I've never seen hourly rates like this. If I had something like this, I'd be making spreadsheets to see if I could possibly use a powerwall to capture the electricity as they pay me. I'd have a bunch of tablets throughout the house monitoring the power rates, and maybe even create an arduino or Edison device to take appropriate charging/no charging actions. Heck, start a company that just houses a big bank of batteries in a warehouse for some company that always uses electricity and arbitrage the system, soaking in power when ComEd pays you, then selling that power at a discount to the consumer.
It is new for it to show up on a home owners meter, never heard of that before... but the buying and selling of power on the grid has been like this for ever... and it goes into you as the customers bill. If your local grid has to pay other sections of the grid to take the power they are making, that cost gets rolled into the average cost of making power for that utility, and thus determines your power cost.

Keith
 

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When I signed up for the hourly rate and hourly meter the info I got was just as "fourdoor" said. ConEd has a excess because they do not want to shut down and restart plants. They just let them run because demand will be going up soon. I can see what I am paying by the hr or every 5 minutes if I choose. I charge up in the Am so it's finished by 5 o'clock am. Usually never over 2.5 cents per KWh but last nite was right around .01 cents per KWh. The lowest was -.16 cents. The price during the day is usually all over the place and up to plus .18 cents per kWh. Just me and the wife here so we do not use a lot of electric during the day.
Are you sure you're with ComEd? The hourly pricing for the day you're referring to is nowhere near -16 cents. Maybe -1.6 cents.

https://hourlypricing.comed.com/live-prices/?date=20170518

Wow...and I thought I had an awesome deal here in Arizona @ roughly 4.5 cents/KWh at night, lol Though we do have a nuke plant here, we also have multiple fossil plants, so I suspect those can be ramped up and down as needed.
Don't get too fooled here. The prices being discussed are ONLY for the "electricity supply charge" portion of the electricity bill. There's a plethora of other miscellaneous charges on top of that... "Distribution Facilities Charge", "Transmission Services Charge", "Capacity Charge", etc. etc. etc. The marginal $/kWh is minimum 7-8 cents/kWh. Averages are more like 10-12 cents/kWh. And depending on how many kWh you use, the monthly charges that aren't tied to kWh usage push the effective per-kWh rate even higher than that.
 

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as low as -.01 cents per KWh and might go up to +.02 cents per KWh at the highest. It usually takes around 3 hours on my Clipper creek 220 unit. I have seen it at a record low of -16 cents per KWh. I am in suburb of Chicago on ComEd electric.
So, err, in that case you can leave the car powered up and set it to MAX heating to try to use up as much electricity as possble. The more you use, the more they will pay you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I will have to get a screen shot of what the hourly charges are on my computer and post it when I have time. I can also get the hourly charges on a app on the cell phone. "Jsmay311" is correct that there are other chargers that are on top of the power charges. When not on a hourly rate program the normal charge ConEd charges is 6.5 cents per kwh and then other charges on top of that.
 

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Are you sure you're with ComEd? The hourly pricing for the day you're referring to is nowhere near -16 cents. Maybe -1.6 cents.

https://hourlypricing.comed.com/live-prices/?date=20170518



Don't get too fooled here. The prices being discussed are ONLY for the "electricity supply charge" portion of the electricity bill. There's a plethora of other miscellaneous charges on top of that... "Distribution Facilities Charge", "Transmission Services Charge", "Capacity Charge", etc. etc. etc. The marginal $/kWh is minimum 7-8 cents/kWh. Averages are more like 10-12 cents/kWh. And depending on how many kWh you use, the monthly charges that aren't tied to kWh usage push the effective per-kWh rate even higher than that.
Your own quote show he said ".16 cents" Not 16 cents.

Keith
 

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With our 2016 Volt and our 240 Volt charger, which is a Clipper Creek HCH 40, we use 16 KWH for a full charge for a depleted battery, 0 range, in which we use from the battery anywhere from 13.8-14.4 KWH indicated used. Our price here in northwestern Oregon is .113-.117 per KWH with all cost, which is computed by dividing the total electric bill, for instance, $140.89, divided by the KWH used, 1359 which would equal in this case: $.104 per KWH (delivered with all costs).

In Oregon the more electricity you use the more you pay for KWH. Just the opposite of the way economics works everywhere else. Most cases the more quantity you buy the less the price per unit, seem like a real win for the power companies.
 

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When I signed up for the hourly rate and hourly meter the info I got was just as "fourdoor" said. ConEd has a excess because they do not want to shut down and restart plants. They just let them run because demand will be going up soon. I can see what I am paying by the hr or every 5 minutes if I choose. I charge up in the Am so it's finished by 5 o'clock am. Usually never over 2.5 cents per KWh but last nite was right around .01 cents per KWh. The lowest was -.16 cents. The price during the day is usually all over the place and up to plus .18 cents per kWh. Just me and the wife here so we do not use a lot of electric during the day.
I just checked with my power company, and they run a slightly different deal. You can join a program where you can see your hourly usage, and when they anticipate a peak time to arrive, they will email or text participants to reduce their usage and pay you $1.58 per kWh that you are able to actually reduce from your estimated usage. I'm tempted to sign up as it appears that the program doesn't cost me anything, I'm still paying the same flat rates with the kicker of discounts during special times. I need to do more research.
 
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