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I've given up on GM going electric. Rather than buy into an EV pickup maker they're instead selling one of their factories to an EV pickup maker. GM was a leader here but now they're a follower. The Volt may very well be my last GM simply because I don't want to ever go back to pure ICE.
 

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In all fairness. Very few home chargers can output more than 7.2kw. The usual setup is a 40amp breaker.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
In all fairness. Very few home chargers can output more than 7.2kw. The usual setup is a 40amp breaker.
well people do want to take trips and not everyone charges at home. Also, in US many states restrict selling electricity by kWh so charging is charged by the minute
 

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Just read an article on a new GM EV in the wild. Lost the link on my FB....seems oversized BOLT. Time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Just read an article on a new GM EV in the wild. Lost the link on my FB....seems oversized BOLT. Time will tell.
pretty much a stretch Spark, same suspension and by looks people think it has the same engine cradle arrangement. Regardless they need a larger Bolt and they need to refresh the Bolt too
 

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Most residential homes in Europe have some kind of 3-phase power, so the charger upgrade is welcome news. For example, my house has 230V, 3 x 25A power, so would be impossible for me to use 1-phase 7.4 kW charging as it requires at least a 32A circuit... can't get that out of 25A.
 

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Most residential homes in Europe have some kind of 3-phase power, so the charger upgrade is welcome news. For example, my house has 230V, 3 x 25A power, so would be impossible for me to use 1-phase 7.4 kW charging as it requires at least a 32A circuit... can't get that out of 25A.
Interesting, I didn't know the 3 phase European home power was so limited in current capacity.

Most US homes have at least 100 A 240V single phase, and I'd say the majority are >= 150A 240V service. My current house has 200 A 240V service, for instance.
 

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Interesting, I didn't know the 3 phase European home power was so limited in current capacity.

Most US homes have at least 100 A 240V single phase, and I'd say the majority are >= 150A 240V service. My current house has 200 A 240V service, for instance.
Oh there are options. If I paid more, I could get 3 x 35A, 50A or 63A. But I really don't need more power, I use about 16,000 kWh yearly. My power used rarely goes above 8-9 kW (that's about 35-40A out of my 75A capacity), and now that summer is coming, my power usage is going down, WAY down compared to winter... I might consume 2,000 to 3,000 kWh during a winter month and maybe 600 kWh during a summer month...

And my Volt doesn't require anything special to charge it, I use my charging cord's 6A mode, that's about 1400W power. That's all I need to fill the battery during the night. If I had something with a huge battery, things could be different...
 

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pretty much a stretch Spark, same suspension and by looks people think it has the same engine cradle arrangement. Regardless they need a larger Bolt and they need to refresh the Bolt too
If you look at the driver's head, and the size of the wheels (most likely Bolt sized at the least) you can see you can probably put a Spark inside it. I don't think you appreciate how small a Spark is. Go drive one.
 

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If you look at the driver's head, and the size of the wheels (most likely Bolt sized at the least) you can see you can probably put a Spark inside it. I don't think you appreciate how small a Spark is. Go drive one.
You are missing the point, there is not much about GM that Shivetya won't "shiv" on. It's just a thing. Hence, the Spark and rear axle comments, etc. It's funny, I was reading another thread, not paying attention to who posted, just reading the posts. Came on one that turned all negative and I thought, sounds like Shivetya. Sure enough, it was.:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You are missing the point, there is not much about GM that Shivetya won't "shiv" on. It's just a thing. Hence, the Spark and rear axle comments, etc. It's funny, I was reading another thread, not paying attention to who posted, just reading the posts. Came on one that turned all negative and I thought, sounds like Shivetya. Sure enough, it was.:)
Happy to keep you in your hyperbole spot.

I have stated many times, I want to see a revision of the Bolt. The Volt got a nice revision in 2019 with just the charging rate increase and I was shocked to see the Bolt did not get one. Engineering wise, yes its a hack, but that does not mean it should not be improved upon. However I don't trust GM and their announcements not to long ago implied they would make Cadillac their focus for BEVs. Now we see a larger BEV on the prowl one can hope the Bolt gets a revision too. They should have at least baked in the increased charging rate instead of keeping it an option. GM needs to show that the Bolt wasn't just a PR stunt and a revision might help kick up sales now that the tax credit is reduced.
 

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Here's a quote from the linked article:
The current Kona Electric will take a full charge from a 7.2kW supply in nine hours 35 minutes, however new figures for the forthcoming version haven’t been confirmed.

You would think 'drivingeletric.com' would be better at this....

A person new to EV's reads this and thinks, "9 and a half hours? Ain't nobody got time for that."

Is this quoted time from '0 miles to Full Charge'? Nobody arrives home with 0 miles, unless it's on a flatbed tow truck.

No wonder most of the public does not understand EV's.


 

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Here's a quote from the linked article:
The current Kona Electric will take a full charge from a 7.2kW supply in nine hours 35 minutes, however new figures for the forthcoming version haven’t been confirmed.

You would think 'drivingeletric.com' would be better at this....

A person new to EV's reads this and thinks, "9 and a half hours? Ain't nobody got time for that."

Is this quoted time from '0 miles to Full Charge'? Nobody arrives home with 0 miles, unless it's on a flatbed tow truck.

No wonder most of the public does not understand EV's.


X amount of time for X miles is a far better way to represent EV charging at home. Not sure why they list DOA to 100% times since very few people drive >200 miles a day to work and back.

If you tell them "It adds up to 30 miles of range each hour you are sleeping" it gets the point across better.
 

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Happy to keep you in your hyperbole spot.

I have stated many times, I want to see a revision of the Bolt. The Volt got a nice revision in 2019 with just the charging rate increase and I was shocked to see the Bolt did not get one. Engineering wise, yes its a hack, but that does not mean it should not be improved upon. However I don't trust GM and their announcements not to long ago implied they would make Cadillac their focus for BEVs. Now we see a larger BEV on the prowl one can hope the Bolt gets a revision too. They should have at least baked in the increased charging rate instead of keeping it an option. GM needs to show that the Bolt wasn't just a PR stunt and a revision might help kick up sales now that the tax credit is reduced.
Most working class people charge at night and at home. Even at 120v x 12a a Bolt will service the majority of commuters.

There is no such thing as Fast Charging yet. It does not exist. 10 gallons a minute at 30 mpg, is 18,000 miles per hour remote fueling rate? That would be 3 megawatt charging at 7,500 amps. The cable would be about the diameter of a baseball bat.

The definition of an engineering 'hack' is removing the instruments from line of sight with no blindspot mirrors. While the interior room of the Bolt exceeds that of the Model 3, and the $36,200 version having a shorter range and higher weight and inferior all-weather performance than the Bolt, I'm simply not impressed. The Model 3 is also longer and harder to park because they had to retain that 'gas engine' look.

"DC Motors Sucketh" - Elon Musk paraphrased prior to the Model 3. Guess he was mimicking the EV1 architecture. Wait, no the EV1 was more advanced, it had inductive charging, lower Cd and CdA, better Mi/kWh (NiMH variant), and an inductive charging network with 1,100 locations.

GM switched to DC in 2010.
 

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I've given up on GM going electric. Rather than buy into an EV pickup maker they're instead selling one of their factories to an EV pickup maker. GM was a leader here but now they're a follower. The Volt may very well be my last GM simply because I don't want to ever go back to pure ICE.
I get the complaints about GM. But if I were the CEO, I would not be releasing any new EVs in the immediate future. Developing? Yes. Releasing, no. Maybe they could make a Buick or a Cadillac EV, as high margin premium features could offset some of the price difference, but those brands don't make sense for the younger, tech-saavy crowd that tends to buy EVs.

The problem is that GM, and Chevy in particular, heavily rely on competitive pricing and discounting to sell their cars. The bulk of their cars (not trucks) cost (or did cost) $20-30K. They compete with Kia, Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Ford, etc. in this market space. All of those brands have sold at most around half as many EVs as GM, and therefore all of them will soon have a $7500 price advantage compared to any EV that Chevy could release.

Even with the full $7500 tax credit, Chevy was putting $4K-$8K on the hood of every Volt and Bolt it sold. In a few months, they'll have to put $11K on the hood of the Bolt to make it a compelling alternative to the Kona or Niro EVs.

Putting an $11K (nearly 33%) discount on a $36K car is just not a recipe for success. I don't blame GM for this -- they're suffering the consequences of being the best mainstream market EV manufacturer and the clear volume leader in that category for about 8 years. But it doesn't make sense for them to come out with anything new in the mainstream market until the playing field is leveled either by tax credit expiration, elimination, or extension.
 

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I'll add this -- the ONLY way that they can wiggle their way out of this crappy market position they've been put into is if they come out with the vehicle that currently does not exist, and which everyone wants -- the sub-40K Equinox sized CUV with 250+ miles of range.

In order to get out of the $7500 price hole, they need to offer something that buyers will not cross-shop on price. From my own experience, we were recently shopping for a car for my wife. We basically had a minimum size of vehicle that we'd consider, which was something like a RAV4 or CR-V, and we'd look at some things slightly larger than that. We were not looking at a Trax, HR-V, or anything like that. We were not looking at a Bolt, Kona, or Niro. They were simply too small.

I'm trying to think through new EVs on the horizon. The only one that comes close to that description is the Tesla Model Y, which I think Chevy would beat on price. I guess the Ford Escape PHEV is in the same idea -- but not a true EV. Volvo XC40 likely too pricey.
 

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Just saw a Hyundai SUV (Palisade) at a mall last week and the price was $50,000. In hard currency (US $ :p) that's $37,500 (although the Canadian dollar is starting to raise again along with oil prices), not that far away from what an EV SUV could be. ICE cars will get more expensive as features are added and pollution goals get harder to achieve. EV cars will get cheaper as battery technology gets better and cheaper. We are close to arriving at that time. As the Chinese might say, we live in interesting times.
 

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Tall vehicles tend to have a large drag area. So no matter how good their drag coefficient is, their total drag is going on the high side. That affects range, especially motorway range, negatively. Palisade's coefficient is 0.33 according to media reports, and as it tall, aerodynamics isn't great. Wouldn't be a great EV.

But Kia/Hyundai need to improve the supply situation above all else.
 
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