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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
GM is keeping the Camaro and Corvette but not the Volt?
So I got curious to see what the sales numbers looked like for these vehicles.

Sales of coervette.jpg
Sales of Volt.jpg

Sales number source gmauthority.com

Notice Corvette sales are below that of the Volt in Q3 2018? And total sales really close. Makes me wonder why not get rid of the Corvette?
Is it popularity? Fan base? because it isn't sales numbers.
GM can't dump the Corvette fan base?
But they can dump the Volt fan base?
Isn't there a low volume plant in Bowling Green dedicated to Corvette production?
But there can't be one for the Volt?

I am just asking ...
 

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The Corvette is an enduring iconic American sports car that actually makes profit for GM. Sales are down a bit because this generation is in its 6th model year and the mid-engine replacement is coming in the near future.

I believe GM should keep the Volt as well but I don't believe it makes GM any profit and the $7500 tax credit is going away soon, further hurting any potential future profitability.
 

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They had already announced Volt would end by 2020 (so the plug got pulled early). There was an expectation that the voltec hybrid system would live on in another platform after the 2020 MY, but now it looks more like GM is going to focus on pure EV cars only.
 

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They had already announced Volt would end by 2020 (so the plug got pulled early). There was an expectation that the voltec hybrid system would live on in another platform after the 2020 MY, but now it looks more like GM is going to focus on pure EV cars only.
I don't think the market or infrastructure is ready to substantially replace ICE with pure EV cars. IMHO they're pulling the plug on plug-in with range extenders too early.
 

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The Corvette has been their halo car since the 50s, the Camaro since the 60s, the Volt is a transitional car that was never meant to last, it was a place holder until BEVs became practical. In addition GM is merely following the crowd, Chrysler started it by killing all of their sedans except the Challenger and Charger which they bulked up on steroids by boring out the engines and slapping massive superchargers on them. Ford followed by killing all of their sedans except the Mustang and then force feeding the it the same PEDs as the Dodge. GM held on a little longer before they decided to do exactly the same thing, killed almost all of their sedans but keeping the Corvette and Camaro and shoving the same 700HP engines in them. They don't sell a lot of them but they've jacked up the prices so much on the steroid editions that they are profitable.
 

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It seems that having the best of both worlds - a car with a medium sized battery with plugin charging (for use 80 - 98% of the time) and with gas power for the rest of the time was too good to be true. It makes too much sense.

If battery technology had gotten much cheaper much faster, the concept might have survived by substantially lowering the price of the Voltec system by the time that the federal incentives had run out. Good concept - bad timing.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
... but I don't believe it makes GM any profit and the $7500 tax credit is going away soon, further hurting any potential future profitability.
GM may have lost money on it when it first came out, but with battery cost dropping from around $1000/ kwhr to $100 / kwhr, I think they may have been or should have been turning a profit at some point.

bjrosen - The Corvette has been their halo car since the 50s, the Camaro since the 60s
Well I have heard that GM's highest customer satisfaction vehicle is the Volt. Isn't that sort of in the same wheelhouse? My point being, it seems to matter on these two vehicles, but not on this other vehicle ...

The other thing that surprised me about the sales was that there are a number of other vehicles in the GM lineup that have lower numbers than the Volt.

Look, I get all the other factors, gee they want to go pure EV, PHEV is considered a transition to BEV (only thing in question is the right timing), this was one model in a plant building 4 models and when the plant goes, then all models go, especially if they are low volume sellers and so on, but obviously, in certain cases, like with the Corvettes, where there is a will, there is a way to make it happen.
 

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Look, I get all the other factors, gee they want to go pure EV, PHEV is considered a transition to BEV (only thing in question is the right timing), this was one model in a plant building 4 models and when the plant goes, then all models go, especially if they are low volume sellers and so on, but obviously, in certain cases, like with the Corvettes, where there is a will, there is a way to make it happen.
I agree with you on the Volt but understand that the Corvette currently starts at $55K and goes to over $125K so recent volume still provides huge profits to GM. I wouldn't doubt that actual production costs of a new Volt exceeds that of a new Vette!

This is a LOT of car for just over $50K!! ...and it gets similar highway fuel economy to a Volt using generator power!

 

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GM may have lost money on it when it first came out, but with battery cost dropping from around $1000/ kwhr to $100 / kwhr, I think they may have been or should have been turning a profit at some point.



Well I have heard that GM's highest customer satisfaction vehicle is the Volt. Isn't that sort of in the same wheelhouse? My point being, it seems to matter on these two vehicles, but not on this other vehicle ...

The other thing that surprised me about the sales was that there are a number of other vehicles in the GM lineup that have lower numbers than the Volt.

Look, I get all the other factors, gee they want to go pure EV, PHEV is considered a transition to BEV (only thing in question is the right timing), this was one model in a plant building 4 models and when the plant goes, then all models go, especially if they are low volume sellers and so on, but obviously, in certain cases, like with the Corvettes, where there is a will, there is a way to make it happen.
Bingo. Agree. Let’s also see how long the Malibu and Regal are still offered. I bet not long.

If they really commit to a real range of usable US made BEVs I’d be willing to accept the Volt’s demise as the price of progress. I’m skeptical. We’ll see.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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People are more concerned with their monthly vehicle payment, insurance and vehicle maintenance costs. Fuel costs are a secondary concern especially with gas being relatively cheap right now.

If gas was now ~$4-5 per gallon in most parts of the US then Chevrolet would have sold more Volts. The Volt would probably have been around for a few more years.

The fact is the Volt is a 10 year old design, revolutionary at the time, but times have changed.

Things I won't miss about my 2017 Volt:

Limited forward visibility due to the thick A pillars,

Limited rear visibility due to the Volt's high belt line,

Difficult entry (at least for me) into the driver's seat and for anyone attempting to enter the back seats,

Limited headroom especially for rear passengers,

Lack of power accessory options (seat (other than the 2019 Volt), steering wheel, memory settings),

Tire sealant and inflation kit when GM could have easily supplied LRR tires with Michelin Self Seal technology as on the Bolt,

LRR tires in rain, snow and icy road conditions,

Low ground clearance,

ERDTT (There should be an option to just turn off Engine Assist Heat; period.)

EMM (Necessary but annoying)

FMM (Necessary but even more annoying than EMM)

Windshield wipers that seem slow and under powered for the task of clearing the windshield
 

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It's a combination of image and amount of money made/lost on each one. Every one knows that the Hybrids were a step to PHEVs which where/are a step to EVs. Looking forward it seems changes are coming at a glacial pace but looking backwards they will seem like a blink of an eye (I liken it to back to the 60's when space shots seemed to take forever in between but looking back the time between seemed to happen in a blink of an eye). In the not too distant future when high speed chargers are every where and every car has it and the biggest decision is do I wait and charge up now and then go across the street for a Big Mac or do I plug in now and go across the street for a Big Mac while it is charging where it will be long done by the time I get back. The time of L2 will be a thing of the past except for a few still in home garages and the old convenience once still left in the malls. The day of the PHEV will seem as distant as the time when automatic transmissions were a rarity.
 

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People are more concerned with their monthly vehicle payment, insurance and vehicle maintenance costs. Fuel costs are a secondary concern especially with gas being relatively cheap right now.

If gas was now ~$4-5 per gallon in most parts of the US then Chevrolet would have sold more Volts. The Volt would probably have been around for a few more years.

The fact is the Volt is a 10 year old design, revolutionary at the time, but times have changed.

Things I won't miss about my 2017 Volt:

Limited forward visibility due to the thick A pillars,

Limited rear visibility due to the Volt's high belt line,

Difficult entry (at least for me) into the driver's seat and for anyone attempting to enter the back seats,

Limited headroom especially for rear passengers,

Lack of power accessory options (seat (other than the 2019 Volt), steering wheel, memory settings),

Tire sealant and inflation kit when GM could have easily supplied LRR tires with Michelin Self Seal technology as on the Bolt,

LRR tires in rain, snow and icy road conditions,

Low ground clearance,

ERDTT (There should be an option to just turn off Engine Assist Heat; period.)

EMM (Necessary but annoying)

FMM (Necessary but even more annoying than EMM)

Windshield wipers that seem slow and under powered for the task of clearing the windshield
So many complaints.

The ten year old design came out in 2016 (2 years by my count), and was a new design at the time with many changes from the G1 Volt. Show me a new more modern design with significant differences. The Tesla is an electric car (nothing that new given the Leaf), with a tablet/IPhone interface with downloadable software. We were doing those software updates at Bell Labs in the 1980's with telephone switches and GUIs have been around since the Apple LISA in the early 1880's - they are nothing new.

Big A-pillars - only marginally bigger than many SUVs.

Limited rear visibility - plenty of cars have a similar problem, especially subcompacts. Blind spot warnings on the mirrors help to mitigate this issue.

Difficult entry, limited rear headroom - get a larger car or SUV- subcompacts have this issue in general.

Low ground clearance - a design trade-off to have a better coefficient of drag (better gas mileage).

Self-sealing tires - expensive addition (do you want to pay more for it?). How many Toyota's have them?

Windshield wipers inadequate - not for me.

Many of these complaints go with small cars in general and involve engineering design trade-offs. You can't always get everything you want.
 

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So many complaints.

The ten year old design came out in 2016 (2 years by my count), and was a new design at the time with many changes from the G1 Volt. Show me a new more modern design with significant differences. The Tesla is an electric car (nothing that new given the Leaf), with a tablet/IPhone interface with downloadable software. We were doing those software updates at Bell Labs in the 1980's with telephone switches and GUIs have been around since the Apple LISA in the early 1880's - they are nothing new.

Big A-pillars - only marginally bigger than many SUVs.

Limited rear visibility - plenty of cars have a similar problem, especially subcompacts. Blind spot warnings on the mirrors help to mitigate this issue.

Difficult entry, limited rear headroom - get a larger car or SUV- subcompacts have this issue in general.

Low ground clearance - a design trade-off to have a better coefficient of drag (better gas mileage).

Self-sealing tires - expensive addition (do you want to pay more for it?). How many Toyota's have them?

Windshield wipers inadequate - not for me.

Many of these complaints go with small cars in general and involve engineering design trade-offs. You can't always get everything you want.
These are the compromises that I was willing to make for the Volt. I will make sure that most of these are not an issue in my next vehicle that will probably be an EV.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The Volt battery pack as it is currently designed might have had an increase in EV range.
In the future it might have had a better range with improved battery cells placed into the same modules.
Just stop and think a moment what a Volt or Volt spin off into a CUV would be like with a 75-100 mile EV range.
For me this would be pretty huge.
It just offers something different, that still seems to have value, even at a larger price than the BEV of the future.
 

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Look at those Colorado sales! The bigger question to me is why is everyone going to CUV's, SUV's, and pickup trucks? My view of those hasn't changed in 30 years. I still think they are for soccer moms or people in a business like construction who need something like a pickup. For me, the one time every 2 years I need to haul logs or a furniture item, I'll borrow my friend's pickup or rent one. The rest of the time, I have no interest in driving something that feels like you are driving a school bus, I don't need a foot of extra headroom I'll never use, and I don't need half of my vehicle being an open bed to collect leaves and rain water. I'll never drive anything but a sedan, sports car, or muscle car. I can't be the only one? The hoards of people going to SUV's, pickups, and even CUV's don't need them. Maybe it's just the "in thing"? Sorry, never will be for me.

Mike
 

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Look at those Colorado sales! The bigger question to me is why is everyone going to CUV's, SUV's, and pickup trucks? My view of those hasn't changed in 30 years. I still think they are for soccer moms or people in a business like construction who need something like a pickup. For me, the one time every 2 years I need to haul logs or a furniture item, I'll borrow my friend's pickup or rent one. The rest of the time, I have no interest in driving something that feels like you are driving a school bus, I don't need a foot of extra headroom I'll never use, and I don't need half of my vehicle being an open bed to collect leaves and rain water. I'll never drive anything but a sedan, sports car, or muscle car. I can't be the only one? The hoards of people going to SUV's, pickups, and even CUV's don't need them. Maybe it's just the "in thing"? Sorry, never will be for me.

Mike
They buy them for the same reason they buy a 4WD to get the groceries 8 blocks away. Especially useful that one day in three years when there is a blizzard and you have to go to the store because you ran out of milk and coffee mate just won't do with cereal.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
If GM did have a plan to move the Volt's Voltec to a CUV, that could be called a CrossVolt or something simliar. Then for a short period of time, they could keep Hammtramck's open building Volt's until the new vehicle was released. They just don't see the value of continuing a product and keeping a small fan base.
 

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They buy them for the same reason they buy a 4WD to get the groceries 8 blocks away. Especially useful that one day in three years when there is a blizzard and you have to go to the store because you ran out of milk and coffee mate just won't do with cereal.
The value system of many Americans focuses on independence, safety, and convenience. They then wonder why they are so isolated when they never have need of others and never ask for a favor.

If I have a truck or SUV, I will never have to borrow or rent one to move something (even if I need it once every 5 years). If I have 4-wheel drive, I will never be stuck in the snow or mud and need a tow or push. I become the Marlboro man (or women), the independent pioneer, and the chooser of my own destiny.

If I have a 5,000 lb vehicle, both I and the kids (or grand kids) will steamroll other cars in an accident. I will be the safest person on the road (as long as I avoid accidents with 18-wheelers).

Understandable goals and values but terribly wasteful of resources, somewhat isolating, and not too considerate of others.
 

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List of complaints

So many complaints.

The ten year old design came out in 2016 (2 years by my count), and was a new design at the time with many changes from the G1 Volt. Show me a new more modern design with significant differences. The Tesla is an electric car (nothing that new given the Leaf), with a tablet/IPhone interface with downloadable software. We were doing those software updates at Bell Labs in the 1980's with telephone switches and GUIs have been around since the Apple LISA in the early 1880's - they are nothing new.

Big A-pillars - only marginally bigger than many SUVs.

Limited rear visibility - plenty of cars have a similar problem, especially subcompacts. Blind spot warnings on the mirrors help to mitigate this issue.

Difficult entry, limited rear headroom - get a larger car or SUV- subcompacts have this issue in general.

Low ground clearance - a design trade-off to have a better coefficient of drag (better gas mileage).

Self-sealing tires - expensive addition (do you want to pay more for it?). How many Toyota's have them?

Windshield wipers inadequate - not for me.

Many of these complaints go with small cars in general and involve engineering design trade-offs. You can't always get everything you want.

Interesting list. I agree with the OP on some and with this post on some. Specifically, I *really* wish I had better rear visibility and ideally better forward visibility. Yes, some SUVs have this issue, but not all cars do. I've just left the GTI/Golf/A3 and it had great visibility. It's the biggest thing I miss -- and the rear camera helps but it's not a replacement for regular old visibility.

I'd love a bit more clearance, and would take the efficiency tradeoff.

The other issues either don't bother me or I've not experienced them yet. ERDTT is something that I'll certainly experience but am willing to take. Ditto EMM and FMM, though I bet I'll never hit FMM since I am sure I'll get a tank of gas every several weeks due to my commuting pattern.

On the whole though -- I love my Volt! They got so many things right in this car.
 
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