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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is yet another article written to explain and justify the i3 REx as a prudent choice for an EV without limitations:

http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-i3-rex-one-owners-thoughts-on-bevx.html

Unfortunately, the author resorts to comparing it with and bashing the Volt in order to make his point. This appears to be a consistent approach for i3 aficionados:

http://insideevs.com/range-anxiety-2-0/

BMW also bashed the Model S when they introduced the i3 at the various test-drive events earlier this year. They kept at it despite the audience's advice that it does not help BMW sell the i3s. While in my view it indicates that they are trying desperately to compensate for something, in the view of the unacquainted reading these the Volt is presented in a negative light.

Today's announcement of the larger and possibly more powerful 1.5l all aluminum engine for the new Volt makes me feel warm and fuzzy. No, it is not because I want to drive my car on gasoline. It is because when I do need to drive it so, it will not disappoint me.
 

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"If I am forced to trade my i3 in for a Volt, just so I can make an occasional drive to Lake Tahoe,........"

I think he made the case for the Volt.
 

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I see no "Volt bashing" in the blog post. Everything he said is true:

"It's because the Volt can be the only car a driver ever needs. The Volt can drive across country without blinking an eye and it can indulge your last-second whim to go out to dinner, even when its battery is flat."

"everyone I know with a Chevy Volt or Plug-in Prius wishes they had more electric range and has stated their next electric car will at a minimum have increased electric range over their current car."
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
John could have made his point without talking about the Volt, calling it a PHEV, or equating it to a PiP. Yet both he and Peder made these references repeatedly, even inventing the notion that since the Volt has such a short AER it causes "Range Anxiety".

These guys are not stupid, why do they have to belittle other plugins, including the Model S, in order to promote the i3 or justify why they got one (or two)? An inferiority complex, some sort of regret, arrogance, or something else?
 

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From the lurking I've done on the i3 forums, I think the math model proposed for the Tahoe trip is better than the real experience would be - because the author assumes that he'd have the full power of the range extender (compensated for altitude) available at any speed.

In fact, however, for better user experience BMW appears to have limited output at lower speeds to keep the noise down. As I understand it, the car won't give full power below 56 mph no matter how low the battery gets. (This may be one of the things BMW is changing in the promised improvement update.)

Most of the description of the Volt is fair, but the authors do insist on lumping the Volt I'm with the PiP and Energi twins, suggesting volt drivers mix gas in as necessary and randomly raising the limit of PHEV electric range to match the Volt's ability.

I'm a little puzzled that authors who are feeling the pull of freedom in a car and missing out in their EV don't feel the pull more strongly in a Tesla, where they can cross the country for free on Superchargers (well, after they buy the expensive car or pay for the option.) It seems like more freedom to me...
 

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John could have made his point without talking about the Volt, calling it a PHEV, or equating it to a PiP. Yet both he and Peder made these references repeatedly, even inventing the notion that since the Volt has such a short AER it causes "Range Anxiety".

These guys are not stupid, why do they have to belittle other plugins, including the Model S, in order to promote the i3 or justify why they got one (or two)? An inferiority complex, some sort of regret, arrogance, or something else?
It's marketing, and yes, GM does it too.
When the Volt was brand new, GM mentioned the Prius quite often.
New models need to be defined. Usually by being compared to the best in class. You should be pleased, not upset.
Although because there are relatively few electrics some pretty wild comparisons are made.
 

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He doesn't like the S because it's too heavy. He shies away from the Volt because it's AER is too low and, overall, he'd use more gas. That leaves him with an i3 which won't indulge his need for "spontaneity." I'm glad I don't know this fellow; he's a kvetch.

If, as he suggests, he gets BMW (or CARB/BMW) to give him a HOLD mode, he'll complain that it takes too long to charge his i3.

I read the article and felt warm and fuzzy about my Gen I Volt. Imagine how warm and fuzzy I'll feel about Gen II.
 

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If, as he suggests, he gets BMW (or CARB/BMW) to give him a HOLD mode, he'll complain that it takes too long to charge his i3.
I don't know why he would complain about charge speed. The base i3 charges at twice the Volt's rate. With CCS option it takes less than 30 minutes.

Every car is a compromise, so the decision depends on one's needs. When you are spending that much money, who doesn't compare the contenders in the market. Personally, I will be looking at the '16 Volt and i3 late next year. After test driving the i3, I am very impressed and it suits me fine. It's nice to have choices.


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I see no "Volt bashing" in the blog post. Everything he said is true:

"It's because the Volt can be the only car a driver ever needs. The Volt can drive across country without blinking an eye and it can indulge your last-second whim to go out to dinner, even when its battery is flat."

"everyone I know with a Chevy Volt or Plug-in Prius wishes they had more electric range and has stated their next electric car will at a minimum have increased electric range over their current car."
Thank you. John did this post for my blog and I can assure you he doesn't bash the Volt, he actually really considered buying one for a long time before choosing the i3 REx. I don't know why anyone would think this is bashing:

"That’s 95% all-electric miles as compared to the Chevy Volt, which has a community wide average of 80% all-electric miles. If I am forced to trade my i3 in for a Volt, just so I can make an occasional drive to Lake Tahoe, I will in fact be driving fewer electric miles than I am today."

That is just a fact for him. His personal driving needs mean he would indeed be driving less total electric miles with a Volt but it would allow him to make the Tahoe trip without needing to think about it.

vdiv: Personally I call the Volt a PHEV also. But I also call my i3 REx a PHEV, because that's what they really are. Perhaps a more concise term would be that they are both extended range electric vehicles, but how many different classes of EV's are we going to have? We don't call the PIP or C-max EREV's, so why should we call the Volt or i3 REx that? What is the determining factor that graduates a PHEV to being called an EREV? I think that's different for many people. If there was a specific metric that was accepted industry wide (like the vehicle needs to have an AER greater than 30 miles) that could qualify a vehicle as an EREV, then I would use it. What should we then call the Fisker Karma (besides discontinued of course!)? My car averages about 73 miles electric before the range extender kicks on but I still call it a PHEV. I don't think PHEV is a derogatory term as many here seem to feel it is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The difference is that hybrid and plugin hybrid vehicles were designed to be gasoline vehicles with the occasional use and assist of an electric motor. Their full performance is only achieved when the gasoline engine is used, and there are functions of the car such as cabin heat that can only be achieved with that engine.

Extended range electric vehicles were designed to be primarily an electric vehicle with an engine used to extend the range. They achieve full performance and functionality (albeit not range) with their electric drivetrain alone. There are quite a few Volt owners adamant never to use gasoline for propulsion or at all. They can do that because of the EV nature of their Volt. That decision of theirs does not result in a new form of range anxiety as proclaimed by Peder. It doesn't even make sense to call it gas anxiety, the car will not abandon them in the middle of the road. Big deal it will use a few drops of gas to get them to their destination. Even pure BEV owners object to experiencing range anxiety, once used to the car and the charging infrastructure that simply does not happen to them. However it is a tool used by the naysayers to bash all plugins.

Why am I so adamant against the free use of "plugin hybrid" to describe EREVs? Because the user/reader fails to appreciate the plug/EV part and gets stuck on the hybrid part, falling into the trap of comparing the EREV to non-plugin hybrids or even gas cars. The concept of a dual energy source vehicle stumps a lot of people. They simply cannot appreciate the nuances, which have significant consequences such the high number of EV only miles on the Volts. "It's not a hybrid if you don't use any gas", says Mike Rosack of voltstats.net.

Then they are the naysayers who point fingers and proclaim that the Volt is not an electric car, it's a fraud, and any sort of attempt to reason with them is futile. GM kind of did itself a disfavor by making prudent engineering decisions surrounding the use of the engine in the Volt. However these decisions do not change the nature of the car. We know what choices BMW made as that was described in your blog on many occasions. The i3 has merits it can stand on and it does not need the Volt to compare. It especially does not need false contrasts being drawn.
 

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The EREV is really a marketing term.
What you ascribe to PHEVs are simply engineering choices.
How much or how little of a vehicles capabilities are available in electric mode is not a defining factor.
Some plugins, like the PiP can't even move at typical highway speeds without kicking in the gas engine. Others like the Volt can do almost anything without having to resort to the gas engine.

As for "gas anxiety" you minimize it. Most Volt owners I know, including at one time my wife and I, hate it when the gas generator kicks in.
I'm glad it doesn't bother you. And I am sure there are others it doesn't bother either. I suspect at least half of owners don't like it when that generator kicks in.
 
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