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Forum member joesonvolt from Quebec has been working on a new model ERDTT switch as a successor to his original. I’ve been in correspondence with him and a few days ago I received the new model hot off his workbench.

The new version is in the form of a Y cable. The foot of the Y is an I/O switch. The top arms of the Y are a green male connector and a black female connector. The original temperature sensor in the car has an identical green male connector. During installation, this connector is detached and the new Y cable is plugged into the two original male and female connections. There is no need to remove the temperature sensor from its mounting near the radiator. The I/O switch allows either the original sensor or the new resistor to be inline. If the resistor path is used, the outside temperature will read significantly higher than it actually is, deterring the Engine Running Due To Temperature.







The hard part of the installation is accessing the sensor and its connector. One method is to remove the front passenger wheel and then the inside wheel well panel. An alternate way is go from below the car and remove a plastic shield to get to the sensor, and I decided on this method. I’ve never enjoyed laying on a garage floor working on a car whose front end is up on ramps though, so I called up my friendly neighborhood car repair shop and asked if they would let me use one of their lifts and work with me to install the cable. They readily agreed and it took us about twenty-five minutes to raise the Volt, get the shield off, locate the sensor, and install the new cable. Now that we know where everything is, we could probably do it in ten to fifteen minutes.

I routed the I/O cable up through the gas generator space and fastened the switch discretely near the passenger side headlight housing. We are due for a bout of frigid air here in West Michigan over the next few days, so I was glad to get this modification done. Today the outside temperature dropped to 30 degrees, but the dashboard reading showed 56 degrees, so the mod is apparently working.

The quality of the design and build of the cable is high. There are also little extra touches: including zip ties for securing the cable, a dustproof flexible transparent cap for the I/O switch, and even a dab of dielectric grease inside the female connector. The new model switch can be found here:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Chevrolet-Volt-Add-on-for-external-temp-sensor-prevent-engine-running-ERDLT-/281495720520?pt=Automotive_Services&hash=item418a73d248&vxp=mtr]

A nod of thanks to forum member ari_c for some helpful hints on installation and forum member somms for his pictures of the sensor location here:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?85874-Any-way-to-stop-the-engine-from-running-so-much-in-the-winter&p=1140098#post1140098

Cheers!
 

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Nice, I went with the 47k ohm resistor in the OAT sensor seems to put the temps up 15 F when it's 30 F outside I'm not in Canada so I only need to worry if it gets below 0 F. Not sure what the difference will be at lower temps.
 

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This whole ERDTT mod baffles me. I guess I drive too many miles in a day to worry about using a bit of gasoline.

I'm far away from modding anything. I just buy 'em and drive 'em anymore.

I leave my ERDTT setting at 30+F (whatever stock is). It came on the last two days and I have no problem with the car working as it was designed. My thinking is: The ICE is there, why not use it?
 

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Hold on?

I know ERDTLT doesn't run the engine like 'Hold mode' does, but with the correct resistance values perhaps it could begin to crack that feature? At some point, somebody is going to find the wires that probably send the message that the battery is used up. Whether line resistance, or mil-amps, knowing where they are and how the values change seems like it will happen. There's got to be a simple way to fool the controller into thinking the engine needs to run. Out of warranty, it is only a matter of time.
 

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This whole ERDTT mod baffles me. I guess I drive too many miles in a day to worry about using a bit of gasoline.

I'm far away from modding anything. I just buy 'em and drive 'em anymore.

I leave my ERDTT setting at 30+F (whatever stock is). It came on the last two days and I have no problem with the car working as it was designed. My thinking is: The ICE is there, why not use it?

Right! The OCD people have about a engine using .07 (otherwise known as just a hair more than a CUP!) of a gallon when the temperature is freezing is borderline mentally ill.
 

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This whole ERDTT mod baffles me. I guess I drive too many miles in a day to worry about using a bit of gasoline.

I'm far away from modding anything. I just buy 'em and drive 'em anymore.

I leave my ERDTT setting at 30+F (whatever stock is). It came on the last two days and I have no problem with the car working as it was designed. My thinking is: The ICE is there, why not use it?
It's a whole different story for the ones in colder climates who don't run the engine all summer, but burn a couple of tanks of gas during the winter, mostly due to ERDTT, which doesn't seem necessary. It's a combination of a significant increase in gas usage for some owners and a change in the driving experience that feels like it was forced on us by overcautious engineers. I haven't seen the test that showed that defrosting was insufficient without the engine running. The electric heater produces hot discharge air in a couple of minutes in comfort mode, so I don't see how it is much worse than a car running on an ICE when it first starts out on a cold day.

Maybe the test that shows the defrosting failure without ERDTT exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it. I just don't see how the electric heat needs the help on short (less than 30 mile) trips. As an option for those who want a super-hot cabin, I would have no problem with it.
 

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The main thing I have against ERDTT is when it runs the engine when I'm pulling into the garage or a parking spot. Why can't it ask like EMM.
 

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The main thing I have against ERDTT is when it runs the engine when I'm pulling into the garage or a parking spot. Why can't it ask like EMM.
Yeah, that's irritating as all get out, isn't it?

As a practical matter, it doesn't. But being practical would have led me to a Mazda2 ...
 

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a significant increase in gas usage for some owners
HAHAHAHA! Yeah, a CUP! 1/16th of a Gallon....


Call it what it is...........OCD over using no gasoline. a cup of fuel is not a big deal at all.


I would say 90% of this OCD is bragging rights on VoltStats, which is just plain silly!
 

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Right! The OCD people have about a engine using .07 (otherwise known as just a hair more than a CUP!) of a gallon when the temperature is freezing is borderline mentally ill.
When GM tried to marketect the EREV term one of their justifications was to avoid cold running of an engine, because cold engines produce disproportionate levels of pollution. In addition, cold engine runs are harder on the engine, requiring increased maintenance.

The hundred or more cold engine runs per year that people in cold climates can have because GM decided not to make its supposedly-not-a-hybrid do what any manufacturer of not-a-hybrid EVs has done are unnecessary, as these mods have shown.

4 or 5 days per week our car is driven less than 20 miles each day.
Most of the trips are 3 miles or less.

ERDTT at 15F-35F was just another example of Gen 1's less-than-spectacular engineering.
 

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I know ERDTLT doesn't run the engine like 'Hold mode' does, but with the correct resistance values perhaps it could begin to crack that feature? At some point, somebody is going to find the wires that probably send the message that the battery is used up. Whether line resistance, or mil-amps, knowing where they are and how the values change seems like it will happen. There's got to be a simple way to fool the controller into thinking the engine needs to run. Out of warranty, it is only a matter of time.
No need to crack it. You can find the resistor values from part 44034 from here (http://www.omega.com/temperature/Z/pdf/z256-257.pdf). To start the engine you need (for 2011-2012, for 2013+ you already have hold mode) to be above 20.08Kohm (+/- x), engine will run until the coolant temp is at point X. Fake the sensor reading for that also and you get the full hold mode (and prolly burn the engine with coolant over temp).
 

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Yes, A cup every day over 3 months. It kind of adds up.
Big Deal... 5.625 gallons of gas. Round up to 6!


The cars we had before this consumed 6 gallons to some people in a day! Back then could you imagine using 6 gallons in 3 months!!!! You'd be tickled!


Logic and perspective is lost to victims of OCD.
 

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The last 3 days, I have used $3.40 of gas on my 6 mile commute to work (plus errands) averaging 17 miles a day due to ERDTT. I am not OCD about it at all, but it is annoying when my engine kicks on after backing out of my garage.
 

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The last 3 days, I have used $3.40 of gas on my 6 mile commute to work (plus errands) averaging 17 miles a day due to ERDTT. I am not OCD about it at all, but it is annoying when my engine kicks on after backing out of my garage.
This. On a short drive, you likely do not need the ICE coming on. My car is warm or has been preconditioned. Having the ICE kick in 10 ft after pulling out of the garage is a waste. Having it kick in again just before I park is also a waste. Having it turn on during a long drive is welcome. Give me a switch on the dash.
 

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This. On a short drive, you likely do not need the ICE coming on. My car is warm or has been preconditioned. Having the ICE kick in 10 ft after pulling out of the garage is a waste. Having it kick in again just before I park is also a waste. Having it turn on during a long drive is welcome. Give me a switch on the dash.
+999999

Of course, GM's official line is that ERDTT is needed for windshield clearing to meet safety standards. But I still don't understand how that's possible, since BEV's without an engine don't have the same probably.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Right! The OCD people have about a engine using .07 (otherwise known as just a hair more than a CUP!) of a gallon when the temperature is freezing is borderline mentally ill.
I’d like to point out that this posting was in regards to a new model of a product that a number of people have expressed interest in; what it consisted of and how to install it. The intent was to impart information. You either find the information useful or you don’t. Insulting the people who are interested in such a modification is not constructive.

GM-volt.com is a sort of club – actually a very exclusive club that most members have paid tens of thousands of dollars to join. As such I believe that everyone here is entitled to drive their Volt as he or she sees fit. If someone wants to drive 100,000 miles a year and never plug it in, fine. If someone else wants to do the opposite and never buy gas, that should be fine as well. It is an electric car after all. No need for judgment. Like Sly and the Family Stone sang, “Different strokes for different folks”.

My goal was to buy an American made electric car with a minimum forty mile range that didn’t look like a wind up toy. That limited my choices to the Tesla Model S or the Chevy Volt. I have a friend who has a Model S that I get to drive on occasion. It’s a wonderful, amazing, beautiful car. I just am not at the point where I will spend more on a car than I paid for my house, and likely never will be. Ergo the Volt.

Since I wanted an electric car, that’s how I drive it. My trips fall neatly within the forty mile range. I have a number of free public charging locations that I take advantage of and I am able to run solely on electricity. So to me the gas generator is merely an additional standard option that I don’t make use of, kind of like the driver’s vanity mirror. Like the mirror, if the generator were to be removed, it would not negatively affect my driving experience. In fact with less weight and no required engine runs for maintenance, stale fuel, or ERDTT, I’d actually have an improved driving experience.

That is why I installed the ERDTT switch. ERDTT is just an unnecessary annoyance in my life that I wanted to eliminate. That’s me personally, of course. “Different strokes”.

Cheers!
 

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Big Deal... 5.625 gallons of gas. Round up to 6!


The cars we had before this consumed 6 gallons to some people in a day! Back then could you imagine using 6 gallons in 3 months!!!! You'd be tickled!


Logic and perspective is lost to victims of OCD.
I haven't had a winter yet, so can't comment on how often it needs to restart, but I'm going to assume an hour parked is enough cool off that it is required on next start up.
I work close to home and will never deplete battery on my commute.
Yet with ERDTT, I would waste a ton of gas.
Leave home - 0.25L
At the office, have a meeting at a different site a couple hours later - 0.25L
Back to my main office 1-2h later, once meeting finishes - 0.25L
(Or maybe I go out for lunch instead of a meeting, same deal)
Leave for home at the end of the day - 0.25L

Now, I seriously hope it doest need to run that much, but that's an insane amount of gas wasted that was 100% unnecessary.
Not to mention multiple cold starts of my engine not really getting up to temp. Worse yet, it I get to where I'm going before a cycle has even finished.
Personally I'd rather have a switch to turn it on when I want. Unfortunately, GM won't give that in software, so this option looks good to me.

And when I go for a ski trip, I pop it on hold mode, et voilà.
 

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I want to do this because last winter I ended up with rusted cams and cloudy oil after a winter of a four mile commute in cold temperatures. Maybe no cause and effect but I'm not taking any chances. If I get to avoid pumping gas in the cold that's a bonus too. If I want need more heat I can always put the engine in hold mode.
 

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Should the car behave the way the person wants Vs Design and warranty.


First, this isn't to Brag but to clarify my background as an Automotive repair expert.

I have over 25 years experiance in the feild in various capacities. I have worked in the shop, I've taught in the classroom, I've sold parts, I've managed repair shops both as a foreman and a service manager.

I am an ASE certtifed Master tech in both Automotive and Med/Heavy Duty truck. Along with L1 Advanced engine performance, Part specialist and service advisor. I've been published a few times in various tade magizines.


So enough of my resume.


The Volt is by far the most complex machine I have seen. It's incredible that it could even be produced, much less for the cost to the end user.


It's not a "golf cart" like the Tesla is at it's core. It's not a conventional 4 stoke Otto engine thats been the norm basically unchanged for the last hundred years. This drivetrain is unchartered terrain.


So, the engine runs sometimes in a manner that some feel uneeded. Ok. And they might be right........






Or they may not be.





So, lets weigh cost vs risk of unindented consequences.......

For General Motors - They have a bunch of money tied into an entirely new mode of transport. They also must warranty this drivetrain. Great. So they design it, possibly overdesigned to meet consumer expectations. At least MOST consumers. There are going to be some people who dont like it, but you cant please everyone...


Risks to GM

Warranty Costs - They do exisit to make a profit.
Public Opinion - Look at the 80s. People that werent even alive wont buy GM products because of the rep produced from those $hit years.
Loss of R&D money - GM is hedging their bets that this mode of transport will take off. If it doesn't, thats money lost.


Risks to end user.

Damaged vehicle - Yup. Ths can happen. The fact is, this drivetrain design is just too new to learn the full extent of any long term effects from changing the design. And Chevrolet has no obligation to release how the system works to you or anyone outside of their company. They have a obligation to produce a vehicle that operates as designed, and I would say they lived up to that.


"I did it, and had no Ill effects." Really? How would you know. Did you measure all components before assembly, then try your idea and disassemble to measure the wear? Any metalurgy tests? What are you basing your "No problem whateversoever." On.... that the car continues to run? Bravo, very solid science.

But it's under warranty.... Ok, so you dont use the fluids or other sundries the manufacture asks you too or change their design, then it goes south and you expect them to pay? Really? So, if it turns out saving 6 gallons of gas does $6,000 of damage..... you will just open your checkbook or will you demand GM repair the aftermath of your modification...... You did it and they should pay the price for your experiment. I can't start with how wrong that line of thinking is.


Everyone who buys a Volt that I have talked to tends to be smart..........Very smart. And likely has used their smartness to do great things, and wow co-workers, friends and family.

Smartness does have a price though..... I call it the "Arrogance of Intellect", which is smart people think they are smarter than just about everyone else and feel that just looking at the surface of a device, they can do it better then the teams of smart people who deisgned it for years all day every day.


That is an incredibily arrogant mindset that has both created great things, but also destroyed them.


All to save 6 gallons of gasoline and/or be Top Dog on a score keeping website that offers no fiscal reward.


See why I say it's silly?
 
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