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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Tweets below were from about 8pm on 13-Jan-2018. https://twitter.com/FredericLambert/status/1084643566658469888

I'm sure that the CCS compatibility issue kinks will get worked out.

Fred Lambert @FredericLambert · 43m
First time using an @ElectrifyAm station. I thought I could use the full 100kW fast-charging capacity of the @Jaguar I-Pace, but all chargers were capped at 50kW.

On top of it, nonE of the CCS chargers actually worked with the I-Pace, a CCS compatible car.

 

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Didn't somebody post something about a little tweak (thing to do) about to make CCs work?
 

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[Correction: The 150kW capable CCS charging cable issue applies to Chevrolet Bolt, not to the I-Pace (as far as I am aware.)] They found that [with the Chevy Bolt] they had to support the CCS charging cable to get the [Chevy Bolt] and the charging station to handshake, start charging. They did not have to continue holding the charging cable once the charging session was successfully initiated. I would not want to be standing in the rain with my hand on a cable with 100kW passing through the cable. What is that 250 amps at 400V? Not me, thanks.
 

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They found that they had to support the CCS charging cable to get the vehicle and the charging station to handshake, start charging. They did not have to continue holding the charging cable once the charging session was successfully initiated.
Yup, that was it. A handhold for the pilot handshake :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)

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You can't trust Fred Lambert on Tesla, Jaguar, or any other EV. It's a con.

I've used only 3 CCS SAE Combos on my car. A Chargepoint 50kW and a EVgo 150 & 350kW. The EVgo 150 did not accept an EVgo card, (it did accept a CC though). So all 3 worked on the Jaguar.

So I say he's full of it. Notice he does not mention the charging location. Notice he does not mention US cars are capped at 84 right now. That would take less than 60 seconds of internet searching. Notice he does not say what is wrong with his charging or whether he called the charging company who usually, just like Tesla, fixes the problem. Notice he claims he's nearly stranded at a 50kW charger, fully aware that non-Tesla chargers are mostly 50kW globally.

This is a propaganda release. Make sure you use The Fred Referral Number when buying roses for Musk.

Fabrication. Somebody needs to alert JLR that Fred has TDS. Tesla Derangement Syndrome. He is not a journalist, he is out to get Tesla Award Points to get his free pony or a sleep over with Musk.

The irony is Elon Musk would have his attorneys file lawsuit(s) against Fred (see Top Gear, etc) if Fred was talking about a Tesla.

Trivia - Name a non-Tesla EV brand that Fred has not trashed using false or misleading information? A: None.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
You can't trust Fred Lambert on Tesla, Jaguar, or any other EV. It's a con.

I've used only 3 CCS SAE Combos on my car. A Chargepoint 50kW and a EVgo 150 & 350kW. The EVgo 150 did not accept an EVgo card, (it did accept a CC though). So all 3 worked on the Jaguar.

So I say he's full of it. Notice he does not mention the charging location. Notice he does not mention US cars are capped at 84 right now. That would take less than 60 seconds of internet searching. Notice he does not say what is wrong with his charging or whether he called the charging company who usually, just like Tesla, fixes the problem. Notice he claims he's nearly stranded at a 50kW charger, fully aware that non-Tesla chargers are mostly 50kW globally.

This is a propaganda release. Make sure you use Fred Referral Number.

Fabrication. Somebody needs to alter JLR that Fred has TDS. Tesla Derangement Syndrome. He is not a journalist, he is out to get Tesla Award Point to get his free pony or a sleep over with Musk.

The irony is Elon Musk would have his attorneys file lawsuit(s) against Fred (see Top Gear, etc) if Fred was talking about a Tesla.
a) His tweet: https://twitter.com/FredericLambert/status/1084643566658469888
Went out to (included @) Electrify America: https://twitter.com/ElectrifyAm
And out to (include @) https://twitter.com/Jaguar
They could rebut. You could also post on that tweet.

b) Not exactly true about his Tesla slant. He has had several negative things mentioned about Tesla.

c) Other tweets in that thread are also including Jaguar and Electrify America like this one:
 

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When you try to use a Tesla Supercharger and you NEED it, do you Twitter about it? Does Fred?

Or do you make a phone call?

Both of you just go back to trashing General Motors for having a woman CEO or something else irrelevant.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Is Fred running for President in 2020?
When you try to use a Tesla Supercharger and you NEED it, do you Twitter about it? Does Fred?
Or do you make a phone call?
Both of you just go back to trashing General Motors for having a woman CEO or something else irrelevant.
Those are some bizarre comments. What does running in 2020 have to do with anything or trashing a women CEO. I don't recall that. Stay courteous and on topic please.

I would contact Tesla if I needed a charge (2nd tweet indicated he did not *need* it) but the built-in Tesla SC route planner knows if a supercharger is down so not applicable for that. Maybe if a Tesla user was using a ChaDemo adapter or J1772 while taking an off route or pulling a trailer or something.

The twitter world and active users do things differently. They contact companies in multiple ways and sometimes at the same time. ie. phone call, tweet (@ contacts above), FB and whatever. Phone calls aren't always available on weekends or at night for some companies tho. Not sure if Electrify America is on Sunday nights as an example.
 

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"I would contact Tesla..."

Yeah. Exactly my point. When EVgo would not accept my EVgo card, I did not Twitter about it. I called, and they were helpful.
In fact, I posted on Plugshare that I was doing an I-Pace test on their new 350kW water-cooled 'Janus' station in Baker.
2 hr later on a Sunday, a EVgo engineer contacts me for feedback since it just came online.

As far as my lack of manners, saw a Tesla parked at a gasoline pump Friday. That's tacky. There were normal parking spots. Did I Twitter that a 'dumb Tesla owner' was trying to put gas in his Model X? I certainly had a camera. No. Why? Because it would be misleading.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
"I would contact Tesla..."

Yeah. Exactly my point. When EVgo would not accept my EVgo card, I did not Twitter about it. I called, and they were helpful.
In fact, I posted on Plugshare that I was doing an I-Pace test on their new 350kW water-cooled 'Janus' station in Baker.
2 hr later on a Sunday, a EVgo engineer contacts me for feedback since it just came online.
Nice that they got back to you since they were watching that new one. Guessing they got it to work. I'm assuming you got 80 or 83 kW?

As far as my lack of manners, saw a Tesla parked at a gasoline pump Friday. That's tacky. There were normal parking spots. Did I Twitter that a 'dumb Tesla owner' was trying to put gas in his Model X? I certainly had a camera. No. Why? Because it would be misleading.
It could have been legit IMO. When traveling and a gas station is not packed I park my Tesla in front of the gas pump where the windshield wiper fluid/cleaner is (ie. so soapy sponge water doesn't drip all the way to a distant parking spot elsewhere). I also generally move ASAP if they are remotely busy. I also go inside and get a drink or snack. After all the gas stations make most of their money on convenience items and not gas as far as I know. HTH
 

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One problem with the 350kW station is that it does not report output directly, and currently, neither does Jaguar. It averaged 72kW for 30 minutes based on billing info iIRC. I drove down to test it. 120 miles from home, Jag has 190 miles of range according to Texperts, it was indeed a suicide mission. I actually could have made the round trip without recharging even with the 3700' climb I realized, so I dialed my speed up to 85 mph to burn off juice for a good test, but still had 38% left, which was probably too much, I left with 80% which makes me believe at >50% the Jag charges faster than Teslas.

There are 100 reasons people park in a gas stall and don't pump fuel. Just like at EV stalls. It's rude either way when there is parking available. Want to clean your windshield? Park and clean it. Don't block the only diesel pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
One problem with the 350kW station is that it does not report output directly, and currently, neither does Jaguar. It averaged 72kW for 30 minutes based on billing info iIRC.

I drove down to test it. 120 miles from home, Jag has 190 miles of range according to Texperts, it was indeed a suicide mission. I actually could have made the round trip without recharging even with the 3700' climb I realized, so I dialed my speed up to 85 mph to burn off juice for a good test, but still had 38% left, which was probably too much, I left with 80% which makes me believe at >50% the Jag charges faster than Teslas. ...
Sounds pretty decent.

FYI, there are a couple of charging comparison charts in this other thread: https://gm-volt.com/forum/showthrea...ly-limited-to-83-84-kWh-but-still-pretty-good!

Note that the charts are for a 90 kWh Tesla. My 100 kWh Tesla charges faster than my 90 did. My sons Model 3 LR charges faster than my 100 kWh (we roadtriped over Thanksgiving on the same route so there were several Supercharging examples I saw).
 

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A couple of points here:

First, Electrify America started out with the intent to make 50 kW urban support chargers. These are essentially destination chargers as they are installed with the intent that local people (who maybe cannot charge at home or have short-range EVs) would use them while patronizing the local businesses. However, they realized that 50 kW chargers were a bit dated, so they are going to be upgrading them to 150 kW.

Second, the Jaguar I-PACE doesn't have the CCS connection issue. That is specifically an issue with the early Bolt EVs. Apparently, GM is aware, and they are already working on a solution. I haven't confirmed this yet, but it probably has to do with reinforcing the charge port.

Third, how does Fred know that they didn't actually work? Did he attempt to use them? Did he escalate the issue? I'm pretty sure he's at the Torrance, CA Electrify America site. I've been there, I've used the chargers, and I've verified that they work. He didn't check in on PlugShare, but others have checked in, having successfully charged. Without seeing what Fred did when he got there, it's hard to tell whether it's a site issue or PEBKAC.

Fourth, Fred does have a tendency to sensationalize anything that he can in order to make Tesla look better or non-Tesla EVs look worse. I wouldn't be surprised if the extent of his "attempt" to activate the chargers involved plugging in the I-PACE and when it didn't automatically start, he threw up his hands and drove away. Essentially, it wasn't worth wasting his time seeking a solution: he had his scoop.
 

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One problem with the 350kW station is that it does not report output directly, and currently, neither does Jaguar. It averaged 72kW for 30 minutes based on billing info iIRC. I drove down to test it. 120 miles from home, Jag has 190 miles of range according to Texperts, it was indeed a suicide mission. I actually could have made the round trip without recharging even with the 3700' climb I realized, so I dialed my speed up to 85 mph to burn off juice for a good test, but still had 38% left, which was probably too much, I left with 80% which makes me believe at >50% the Jag charges faster than Teslas.
I think that's a point that gets ignored when focusing on peak charging rates. Ultimately, what matters is whether the charging rate matches the time you expect to spend at the location.

Tesla charging rates basically force you into starting your Supercharger session at no less than 10% and ending the session at no more than 60%. Essentially, vehicles like the Model 3 LR have effective legs of about 130 to 140 miles between Supercharger stops.

Vehicles like the I-PACE actually maintain a higher average rate if you end up spending more time at the charger location, and as you experienced with faster chargers, a 30-minute session will get you pretty close to 80%. A 45 minute stop for dinner would let you stop with about 10% and leave with about 80%, and you wouldn't feel like you wasted your time. Essentially, the I-PACE gives you effective legs between charging stops of 160 to 170 miles.

So it's not just about the peak charging rates.
 

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A couple of points here:

First, Electrify America started out with the intent to make 50 kW urban support chargers. These are essentially destination chargers as they are installed with the intent that local people (who maybe cannot charge at home or have short-range EVs) would use them while patronizing the local businesses. However, they realized that 50 kW chargers were a bit dated, so they are going to be upgrading them to 150 kW.
Yes and no. Yes, EA has shifted their thinking since their original published Cycle 1 plan and are going to be building more community charging sites with 150 kW rather than 50 kW. But, I doubt that they plan to upgrade Torrance. I’m not sure if any other of the 50 kW locations already in the late stages of the construction pipeline have been already redesigned so we might see a few more new 50 kW sites put in at locations that had the utility support to handle 150 kW.

Second, the Jaguar I-PACE doesn't have the CCS connection issue. That is specifically an issue with the early Bolt EVs.
There really aren’t that many sites or different car models charging frequently yet so I’m personally not confident that the Bolt EV is the only car having problem with the connection angle and initiating a charge. Also, I’m not confident that the issue is limited to early Bolt EVs since GM has told me that the CCS charging inlet has not changed or been redesigned since the car began production in late 2016. In any case, the Torrance site uses conventional 50 kW cables (not the new liquid-cooled cables) so the “connection issue” is not relevant.

Third, how does Fred know that they didn't actually work? Did he attempt to use them? Did he escalate the issue? I'm pretty sure he's at the Torrance, CA Electrify America site. I've been there, I've used the chargers, and I've verified that they work. He didn't check in on PlugShare, but others have checked in, having successfully charged. Without seeing what Fred did when he got there, it's hard to tell whether it's a site issue or PEBKAC.
Yes, it’s clear from the photo surroundings that this is the EA Torrance location. The PlugShare page for that location makes it perfectly clear that it is a 50 kW site although Fred’s tweet makes it clear that he didn’t bother to check. He also says he could have been “screwed” if he didn’t already have the battery range to get back home anyway but never mentions trying the EA 32A J1772 dispenser there or the ChargePoint 50 kW charger at a library just 1.6 miles from the Torrance EA site or the EVgo site just 5 miles away....
 

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Yes and no. Yes, EA has shifted their thinking since their original published Cycle 1 plan and are going to be building more community charging sites with 150 kW rather than 50 kW. But, I doubt that they plan to upgrade Torrance. I’m not sure if any other of the 50 kW locations already in the late stages of the construction pipeline have been already redesigned so we might see a few more new 50 kW sites put in at locations that had the utility support to handle 150 kW.
Ah, that's a good point. I thought I had read that they were going to go back and replace the 50 kW with 150 kW, but if it requires a new round of permitting and possibly upgrading the onsite utilities, maybe it's not even worth it to them.

There really aren’t that many sites or different car models charging frequently yet so I’m personally not confident that the Bolt EV is the only car having problem with the connection angle and initiating a charge. Also, I’m not confident that the issue is limited to early Bolt EVs since GM has told me that the CCS charging inlet has not changed or been redesigned since the car began production in late 2016. In any case, the Torrance site uses conventional 50 kW cables (not the new liquid-cooled cables) so the “connection issue” is not relevant.
Perhaps, but I feel like this could also be a software issue with the early Bolt EVs. My issues getting a connection are not restricted to only heavy cables, and it has been that way for my Bolt EV from the beginning. If the latch on the CCS head is broken in any way, my car will not charge on that charger.

Checking the PlugShare history, I would see cars such as the i3 and Spark EV checking and charging on that same unit before and after me with no issue. As later Bolt EVs were delivered, that issue didn't change for me, but I would see newer Bolt EV owners checking in and successfully charging on units that I was unable to use due to a broken latch (a couple of those Bolt EV owners even noted the broken latch but that the charger initiated for them anyway.

Because this is the first and only incident I've heard of a Jaguar I-PACE not being able to successfully charge using a CCS plug and it was posted by Fred Lambert (without any useful details, I might add), I'm going to assume that, for now, the situation is not as it was portrayed.

The Electrify America chargers are still really new and finicky, so I'm assuming that is what happened. The fact that Fred happened to be driving an I-PACE at the time isn't even relevant, so his tweet was clearly just a smear.

Yes, it’s clear from the photo surroundings that this is the EA Torrance location. The PlugShare page for that location makes it perfectly clear that it is a 50 kW site although Fred’s tweet makes it clear that he didn’t bother to check. He also says he could have been “screwed” if he didn’t already have the battery range to get back home anyway but never mentions trying the EA 32A J1772 dispenser there or the ChargePoint 50 kW charger at a library just 1.6 miles from the Torrance EA site or the EVgo site just 5 miles away....
Yes, the Torrance area is covered by a number of DCFC and L2 locations. When I went to review the site, I was actually surprised by just how far off the freeway I had to drive just to get there. This isn't a charger I could ever see anyone using for travel.

 

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The EVgo engineer mentioned that they had trouble with 'talking' to cars because stiff cable skewed the connectors, but the Jaguar is not one of them. It locks HARD.

Fred knows Plugshare exists, and non-Tesla EVs exist, and as the EV Blogger God, he should know that only 2 high power CCS sites are hot so far, and both recently. Neither are within 100 miles of Compton, or Torrance.

The I-Pace has an Emergency Range mode and at 0% is good for another 5 miles or more. This is not guesswork. The Pathfinder tool reads 2% SoC when the dashboard reads 0%, and a user has tested it. Remember only the Tesla bases range on battery voltage. The rest base range on driving habits, terrain, climate control, temperature, mode, and history, so the 'range' is not a fixed value by a lazy programmer.
 
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