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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, if you are a fella like me, and care about your valet more than your environment, then are you really willing to buy Volt, for a whooping $40,000?

I joined this community in hopes that Volt would be between $25 and $30 grand, and now we have the news of $40g. I would bet that even GM knows about this issue, that not a lot of people would be willing to pay that much for something the consumers can really save environment.

I am a very number person, so I did some of my calculations, mind it it is only me, your numbers might be totally different, but you will get the big picture...

Volt is $40g, with taxes and everything the cost comes out to $43,000, if financed for 5 years, with $5,000 down, and at 6.5%, the monthly payment comes out to $743.51 a month.

But, like me, you care more about your finances, and not too much about the environment, you decide to buy a car you would rather prefer over Volt, in terms of looks and power. I would go with a Nissan Altima Coupe. This car would be $20,000, before taxes, after around $22,500. So, putting the same values for down payment, interest rate, and the term, we get $342.41 a month.

Now we have to look at the gas prices as well. According to the website, this car has a range of 32 mpg on the freeway, and 23 in city. We know these values are not true, so take a number in the middle and call it the default value. Say around, heck, 27 mpg.

So I drive around 13,000 miles a year, plus minus 1000, it would cost me about 482 gallons a year, or, lets make it 500 gallons. Now with the gas prices on the rise, I would expect gas to be around $6.25 a gallon at the time this car comes out. So yearly I would be paying $3,125 in gas. So monthly around $260.42.

So the total cost a month would be $602.82. Now this is $140.68, a month of savings over Volt. For 5 years the savings would be $8,441. But we will get some tax rebates, according to congress would be $5,000. So, still we are losing $3,441, for just having something we can pose to and say we are saving the environment. And this cost still does not include the electricity bill hike over the years.

I am not affiliated with any other car company, or with any kind of oil company. I still believe that when GM could have produced 80 mile range with the technology they had in 1996, what is stopping them to see that the newer the technology, the higher the range should be. And the lease option at that time was $399 a month. And even if leased it would still be more than that. I simply think it is these oil giants controlling the car companies from producing anything under the range of a middle class from buying to get free of the oil dependency. and once again, the dream of having all the cars on the road running on anything other than oil by the end of next decade is slowly fading away. we are far ways away for a real answer, and sadly we cant do much about it.
 

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You CANNOT simply compare cars by MPG alone. The Volt should be a higher end car with lots of luxuries. The cars you are going to get for half the price will not be anywhere as nice inside or out. People buy luxury cars all the time realizing they could get something cheaper that will get them from point A to point B. What would be an interesting comparison is to look at the Volt to a car in the overall similar style/luxury class, then compare the pricing w/r to the drive mechanism.

However, I do agree the Volt may hurting itself with a 40k price tag. I can certainly afford it. But I want value for my money. I see many boutique car companies, without the bloated overhead of GM, scrambling to bring out electric and electric car hybrids at or below 30k really taking away GMs anticipated market share.

They are too busy trying to make a car that will appeal to the masses, but are pricing it towards those who drive european cars, which will exclude many people.

My personal decision now is to buy ANY electric or electric hybrid as soon as they are availble (lithium batteries) that has 2 seats, and keep my BMW for long drives (if I am stuck with buying a strict electric and not plug in). It probably means GM is out of luck because they will be too slow, and too expensive. I LOVE what Aptera is doing. If they can succeed, that will probably be what I end up buying.
 

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Tesla Roadster = $109,000
Chevrolet Volt = $40,000
Toyota Prius (touring + goodies) = $28,000

Getting off of foreign oil = Priceless

;
 

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Are you willing to look at the competition?
I am actually planning to buy the Volt AND Aptera.

It is worthwhile to really know how you are going to use the vehicle and try to see if it will suit your needs.

Aptera for example, sells for $27K and 120 mile range per charge, would suit my daily commuting needs just fine, I just carry suitcase and laptop, and a passenger every now and then. The electric fuel costs 1.5 cents per mile. I commute 30,000 miles a year. That is just $450/year for the electricity at my current tier. And how much I can deduct from Uncle Sam's expenses? I can deduct $12,600/year for the mileage, and from the tax income bracket, that gives me additional tax income break of $4,200/year. Perhaps with the rising price of gasoline the standard mileage deduction could be higher next year, to the tune of perhaps, $0.50/mile.

So for Aptera, I could have payment of $6,492.30/year, plus $450/year electricity MINUS $4,200/year tax break. Costing me $2,742.30/year.

On the other hand, the V6 Toyota Camry that I use would cost me: $5,770.93/year for the payment, $6,750/year for the gas, $4,200 for tax break, costing me $8,320.93/year! With Aptera vs another Camry, that's a savings of $5,578.63/year for the first 5 years.

After the cars are paid, it would be maintenance plus the difference in fuel costs. Let us say, just the fuel, it would be $6,300/year.

BUT the Aptera is not for everyone. I would still have my Sienna for the occassional family long trip, and my Grand Caravan for towing my trailer or heavy stuff (including cement tubs), which has worked reliably for hauling stuff when doing Home Improvement projects.

I plan to let go of my Camry, and buy the Volt because I need also a regular looking car when the wife takes over the Aptera from time to time. With the Volt coming in the menu, I should be investing in solar roof panels soon, before the speculators will drive the electric bills through the roof! :D

I haven't done the calcs for the VOLT until reliable numbers are in, but for now, as long as it stays within the ballpark of $40K, I'm buying it, or if it goes beyong that, I will still hold on to my Camry and wait it out until the prices goes down or there will be other worthwhile competitors.
 

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$28,600 is the Maximum for Competitive Volt Pricing"

I have had the same thought. My hope for the Volt is that it would be a Prius Killer. But it is not being priced for that market.

See the post "$28,600 is the Maximum for Competitive Volt Pricing"
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=791

Below is an article from the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI)
"Advanced Batteries for Electric-Drive Vehicles" in the section titled Willingness of Consumer to Pay More for HEVs

These life cycle cost conclusions beg the question, “Are consumers willing to pay more for HEVs and PHEVs than their CV counterparts?” The HEVWG collaborative research with
automakers conclude that consumers are willing to pay about $2250 more for a midsize car HEV, about $3000 more for a full-size SUV HEV, about $3600-$4000 more for a
mid-size PHEV, and about $5500 more for a full-size SUV PHEV. The reason for interest in HEVs apparently is not just the fuel economy benefits, but, in the case of the PHEV at least nine additional benefits.
- Less maintenance (due to the electric componentry and EV miles)
- Substantially fewer trips to the gas station,
- The convenience of having a full battery every morning
- Reductions in vehicle air pollution, petroleum use, and global warming gases
- Less noise/vibration,
- Improved acceleration,
- Convenience features such pre-heat/pre-cool with the engine off or use of 120 V appliances
(tools, TVs, refrigerators, lights, etc) from the vehicle electrical system,
- Better handling due to balanced weight distribution, and
- Better handling and other benefits due to lower center of gravity
 

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Some people are day dreaming here ;)

Expect the first version to cost more, so the first 60K-70K produced will be around 40K$ (may be higher, may be lower and will come with a nice tax break)

After that, expect the car to cost less, may be 5K$ less... What happened with the Prius is a good example.

So if you are not an early adapter, you won't be part of those buying the first version, you will be smart and wait for version 2 which will have more goodies for less $.
 

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well, I also think that people arent understanding fully what GM is ammortorizing into the 'cost'. I am pretty sure they are including initial R&D into the cost. That means that the lower production number, the more that massive amount of R&D has to be paid off in each vehicle, and that decreases with production and sales.
 

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You CANNOT simply compare cars by MPG alone. The Volt should be a higher end car with lots of luxuries. The cars you are going to get for half the price will not be anywhere as nice inside or out. People buy luxury cars all the time realizing they could get something cheaper that will get them from point A to point B. What would be an interesting comparison is to look at the Volt to a car in the overall similar style/luxury class, then compare the pricing w/r to the drive mechanism.
I highly doubt that the Volt will be any where near what could be considered a higher end car with lots of luxuries. The Volt will be a compact sized car with standard bells and whistle with a revolutionary drivetrain. We don't have any specs or features for the car but I doubt it will have luxury items like leather, heated seats, ventilated seats, dual zone or tri-zone automatic climate control, rain sensing wipers, sunroofs, adaptive cruise control and other luxury car features. If we're lucky the Volt will get a nav system. It will have some sort of display monitors so a nav system should be built into it.

I see the Volt as being a Cobalt featured vehicle with a revolutionary drivetrain. To expect BMW or Lexus features in a $40,000 Volt is very unlikely, the drivetrain and associated electronic systems is what is bringing up the price of the vehicle.

Even if you take a base equipped CTS, which can maybe almost be deemed a luxury vehicle (maybe entry level luxury) and subtract say about $4,000 for the gas engine and standard drivetrain and replace it with about a $12,000 e-flex drivetrain your looking at over $40,000 in price and you still don't have a very luxurious vehicle.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
all i am trying to say here is Volt is good for some people who would be commuting more than the majority of the population, people who are in the higher income groups, and of course for people who care so much about the environment, yet don't think about the public transport. and to be honest, volt is not the best looking car out there, to say the least.

also, i am not sure what kind of options will be available, and 40 mile range is just good for perfect conditions and on paper. the real range would not be more than 30, or 35 on a calm day. and about the dependence on foreign oil is going to continue, because of its secondary power being gas. i would still say make it diesel, because those engines tend to last more and are better on fuel. and i dont know if you know this, but humans tend to be lazy, and there will be some nights where they forget to plug that thing in, and end up at the station, just like right now, again.

We need a car with a little better range, a little more practical looking shape, a decent price tag, and having an alternative fuel option, other than gas and electricity. until these conditions are met, dont expect people only driving electric cars.
 

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I won't be able to afford it either. The Volt has to come down to $25,000 to $30,000 before most people will recognize it as an awesome deal. And that just won't happen while Li-ion remains expensive.

If things continue like this, GM will run into the same barrier they were faced with when the EV1 project came to a halt. Energy storage.
 

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Stop playing games, GM

I have to agree with onemoehit and other dissatisfied potential GM-Volt buyers. Telling us we have to wait two years for this car, oh, and by the way, it will cost TWICE what a normal car costs is just an insult to all the good people here who really want a plug-in hybrid but can't afford the $48K price tag.

This should NOT be some luxury car as one person (clearly wealthy and oblivious to the average American) suggested on this forum. If GM were serious about mass production and getting hundreds of thousands of these cars on the road quickly, the price tag would not be put out of reach. Don't hand us the sob story of how much R&D money you've spent to bring us a whopping 40-mile electric range, these cars could have been made a decade ago, it was a matter of short-sightedness and stubbornness among American car industry executives. If you are complaining about the price of gas right now, point the finger at those executives first.

Unless GM brings this price down to the $25K-$30K and gets serious about marketing to the broad market rather than the niche that will be buying in 2010, we should all Bolt from the Volt and get a Prius, or better yet, an Aptera.
 

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Probably too much

:eek:I updated my information for the wait list knowing that I'm within the first 11,000, but I've become rather disenchanted since my initial excitement at seeing the prototype. I had the same unfortunate let-down when I saw the SSR prototype and finally after years the totally different production model.I only have a 10 mile commute round trip but the nearest "city" is 30 miles away.I would only use the Volt for commuting, but I'm not dropping more than 25K on something that will only get me to and from work. Too bad our law enforcement will not legalize golf carts.:eek:

The German made LOREMO is looming large in my future
 
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