[illini]

Hello,

I recently filed with TurboTax for my 2013 Volt, and expected a refund.

Instead, the IRS says I owe. I am *not* subject to AMT, per Turbotax Premiere online, and as such it does not include form 6251 in my return. However:

- The IRS is limiting my credit to $4000
- This is based on a $4000 value found on form 6251, differencing lines 33 and 34 to get $4000.
- I concluded this after talking with Turbotax reps, who transferred things to Turbotax desktop, and then generates form 6251 for inspection.
- Form 8936 (included in the return) lists the full $7500.

Turbotax reps state that I am due the full $7500, and that the IRS is limiting the credit based on lines 34-33. They nicely pointed to a Nissan Leaf document that can be used to push back on the IRS. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rSNNFVcfO2iiomG0IpzAmUPv0sFTQrJm-3HXjeIv67w/edit?pli=1

My question is: does anyone have a similar document for the Volt? I think most things in it apply, but I think this should be of concern to new buyers in general. I would like to use such a thing in responding to the IRS.

Also, new buyers may want to file with paper to avoid this, I think a human IRS agent would not do this.

 

[ClarksonCote]

I had no issues with my 2013 filing and my Volt credit. Either an improper form was somehow mixed in your return when you filled it out, or the IRS has made an error.

 

[illini]

I was hoping for that I think this is a dispute in content, not an error in the return per se. Turbotax and the IRS have the exact same information and come to different conclusions. I filed electronically from Turbotax Premiere online.

The Turbotax program
- Reviewed, had no errors
- Concluded AMT did not apply
- Computed that I was due the full credit amount

The Turbotax person stated:
- If I don't win the dispute with the IRS, then their "100% accurracy guarantee" would cover any penalties...but I must pay the missing amount (meaning I don't get all of the credit).
- If I don't win the dispute, that means that the IRS is inconsistently enforcing the rules....

I don't have the snail mail notice from the IRS yet, so I don't know if this is an IRS "CP12" code, or something else. I just know from irs.gov...via transcript download...that this is what happened per the IRS.

 

[DonC]

I had no problem but I did do a paper filing. However, I think it just gets scanned and the process is the same for electronic or paper filings.

Seems some people have an issue with the credit and some don't. The whole thing is somewhat random. When getting the issue resolved, note that the Leaf documents are no different than the Volt documents so you can just use them. However, note that while the EV credits are not subject to the AMT other credits are. It's possible that the EV credits reduced the availability of other credits by pushing your regular tax below your AMT.

Impossible to understand what is happening without seeing all the return documents. But check this possibility out.

 

[Dairine2003]

I filed using Turbo Tax and everything went through smoothly. Good luck getting this corrected.

 

[ConejoRed]

We had no problem receiving the full credit using TaxAct. Received a full refund within two weeks of our electronic filing. From what I can tell from reading other posts on this site, it is very hit and miss and some have an issue and some do not and no one has really be able to determine what the ones that do not receive the full refund have in common (since I have seen issues mentioned with both Turbo Tax and TaxAct...).

 

[12V]

I had a similar issue with the IRS last year. It was resolved in my favor but it took 7 months. See thread below.

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?39153-Final-Word-on-AMT-vs-EV-Credit

Some people at the IRS just don't understand the 8936 credit.

 

[BAZINGA]

I have to knock on wood, I own TWO Volt's and had no issues filing in 2013 and this year for the federal and state credits. My EVSE was disallowed because I bumped into the AMT. No biggie that only cost me about $334

 

[Pepperish]

I have to knock on wood, I own TWO Volt's and had no issues filing in 2013 and this year for the federal and state credits. My EVSE was disallowed because I bumped into the AMT. No biggie that only cost me about $334

I gave them this letter:
Internal Revenue Service February 18, 2014

RE: 2013 Income Tax Refund Adjustment



Dear Internal Revenue Service Agent,

We write in response to IRS correspondence dated __________________that reduced our 2013 Form 8936 tax credit from $7,500.00 to $0. We respectfully dispute the IRS' findings since 26 USC § 30D, as amended by the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 (P.L. 112-240), does not have any nonrefundable personal credits excluded from the application of the general tax liability rule after 2011.

I am writing you today for assistance in understanding why my calculated tax refund was adjusted from my calculated $xxxx.xx.

It appears that my Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Vehicle Credit (Form 8936) was disallowed for some reason. We purchased a 2013 Chevrolet Volt on XXXX, 2013, and such vehicles qualify for up to the $7,500 Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Credit, for which I qualified for $xxxx, per my calculation. The vehicle was not used for business purposes, yet the IRS correspondence indicated that our available plug-in electric vehicle credit disallowed.

For tax years beginning after December 31, 2011, all nonrefundable personal tax credits are allowed to the full extent of the taxpayer's regular tax and AMT liability. For this purpose, the taxpayer’s regular tax liability is first reduced by the amount of any applicable foreign tax credit.

There are no nonrefundable personal credits excluded from the application of the general tax liability rule after 2011. Thus, there is no longer any need for a separate tax liability limitation rule as part of any nonrefundable credit provision. As a result, the tax liability rules have been stricken for the adoption credit, the child tax credit, the American Opportunity credit, the saver’s credit, the residential energy efficient property credit, the plug-in electric vehicle credit, the alternative motor vehicle credit, and the new qualified plug-in electric vehicle credit.

It is our understanding that 26 USC § 30D removes all limits to the credits. Accordingly, we respectfully request the Internal Revenue Service to accept our tax return as originally filed and refund the overpayment of $xxxx.xx due us.

We thank you in advance for your consideration.

I have attached a copy of my 2013 tax return along with Form 8936 and its instructions. I also included a copy from the I.R.S. website showing that the 2013 Chevrolet Volt qualifies for the $7500 credit.

I am eager to figure out what happened so that I can get our tax account corrected.

Sincerely,

I sent this to my nearest IRS office without waiting for the snail mail notice from the IRS. Within a few weeks time, my money was deposited in my account. I still have yet to receive the first notice the IRS website said I was getting, but I did get the everything corrected notice.

It seems that TaxAct, the software I used, did not send in the AMT form showing 0 owed, and so I sent it with my mailing.

All is good now. Hopefully it will help you.

 

[illini]

Wow, that's exactly what I was looking for! Great answer.

It sounds very similar to what I am dealing with, except that they disallowed the whole credit, vs. for me they somehow narrowed in to the difference between lines 33 and 34.

Thank you!

(P.S. to all viewers): I love my Volt, and this changes nothing with that. This just makes me want to protect it more from the negative forces in the world . This car is worth the purchase with no tax credits because you will probably still save significant money in the long run, you won't be feeding the Petro dollar complex and its pollution, and because it is a fabulous car.

 

[bonaire]

AMT is the ruin of modern man

Glad I bought mine in 2012 before the 2013 stock market came along. First time Ive seen AMT. Gotta figure out how to avoid in the future.

 

[Volusiano]

Got my $7500 credit in 2011 for my LEAF purchase and 2013 for my Volt purchase using Turbo Tax just fine. IRS couldn't do direct deposit of my 2013 refund for some reason and had to mail me a check. No problem. Either way works for me.

 

[kns]

I had no problem getting the full credit using TurboTax for the 2011 tax year.

TurboTax generates the proper Form, number 8936. IRS info about that form is here
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-8936,-Qualified-Plug-in-Electric-Drive-Motor-Vehicle-Credit

This page has a list of vehicles approved by the IRS along with the amount of credit applicable to each vehicle. All years of the Volt are listed as eligible for a maximum credit of $7500. Of course, if you qualify for the AMT your credit may be limited.
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Qualified-Vehicles-Acquired-after-12-31-2009

KNS

 

[randl]

Of course, if you qualify for the AMT your credit may be limited. KNS

I don't see any reason why AMT will reduce my credit. Can you explain it for me?

 

[imanjunk1963]

I dont believe TAXACT sends in the AMT form. I used it every year and this year to get my full refund of 7500 approved 7 business days after submitting it electronically using the desktop version and shortly after in a week or so deposited to my account for m 2014 volt purchased in October 2013.

 

[illini]

I don't see any reason why AMT will reduce my credit. Can you explain it for me?

I don't believe it should. Fill out the 6251 form. If you difference lines 34 and 33, you get an amount that is apparently viewed as a limit on the credit per the IRS. Please note that my 6251 ends up with a 0, such that I am not subject to AMT. Follow the link in my first post for a rebuttal of that thinking.

 

[kns]

I don't see any reason why AMT will reduce my credit. Can you explain it for me?

I just reread the following thread and followed the link provided by 12V, the OP of that thread.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?39153-Final-Word-on-AMT-vs-EV-Credit
This is muddy water and I think you would be best served by speaking with your tax adviser.

KNS

 

[randl]

I found this Q&A from IRS.gov to be helpful: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Energy-Incentives-for-Individuals:-Questions-and-Answers. Scrolling to the last question, it reads...

Q. Does the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) impact the alternative motor vehicle credit?

A. Starting in 2009, the new law allows the alternative motor vehicle credit, including the tax credit for purchasing hybrid vehicles, to be applied against the alternative minimum tax. Prior to the new law, the alternative motor vehicle credit could not be used to offset the AMT.

In other words, the IRS says AMT does not reduce your credit. Can anyone show me conflicting info from the IRS?

 

[illini]

That is also very helpful, I will use that in my reply. I still have not received the written letter explaining the problem for certain.

 

[danvolt]

That is also very helpful, I will use that in my reply. I still have not received the written letter explaining the problem for certain.

I am amazed when the IRS gets ANYTHING right. No one, no one, can understand our tax code. Okay, now onto business...

Just so you are aware (as you say you have yet to receive the written notice from our friends at IRS yet...): I finally received my notice, and it turns out they claim that they changed my credit computation because of an "...error in computation of the credit on line 38 of Form 3800..." Only thing is, I NEVER filed a form 3800; credit for my '13 volt of $7500 was properly filed on a Form 8936!!! No mention of AMT related issues for me (they're saving this to screw it up again after they remedy their Form 3800 error ! ;-/

Anyone else been so lucky as to get CP11 notice like I did with reference to a form 3800? If so, any way I can try and turn this around faster than the many weeks to months it takes to snail mail with them (after all, they're holding a nice chunk of change I could use...)?

They tire me out.