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Here is another article about Mitsu and utility company collaboration:

TOKYO (Nikkei)--Tokyo Electric Power Co. (9501) plans to have up to 200 recharging stations for electric vehicles up and running in the greater Tokyo area in fiscal 2009, with an eye toward expanding the network to 1,000 or so in about three years, The Nikkei learned Thursday. 08-08-08
 

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Mitsubishi has a new agreement with California utility companies for iMiEV road tests that may begin October 2008.
What? I thought the EV-1 proved that everything was solved. No more testing is needed. Those Big Oil guys must be skulking around the utility companies! My God! A whole new generation of car buyers are being poisoned with the ideas of range anxiety and battery reliability concerns as we speak!:eek:
 

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What? I thought the EV-1 proved that everything was solved. No more testing is needed. Those Big Oil guys must be skulking around the utility companies! My God! A whole new generation of car buyers are being poisoned with the ideas of range anxiety and battery reliability concerns as we speak!:eek:
Nobody's saying that. Nobody can stop the adoption of electric cars now, what with rising oil prices and all the different groups developing EV battery technology. Chevron did a great job delaying the inevitable by a decade though.

These oil and car companies have huge PR firms to defend them, please don't regurgitate their talking points.
 

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"I thought the EV-1 proved that everything was solved." - DaV8or

Mitsu and Tokyo Electric Power Co. developed a quick charging system that can fill the battery with 37-mile worth of energy in 10 minutes. Mitsu claims 100-mile range per full charge (16kWh). Let’s suppose this quick charge system can fill the battery with 5kWh in ten minutes, that’s 30kW or 240V x 125A(!). Or, if Mitsu’s cruising range is based on 50% (30% - 80% SOC) of the 16kWh, still we are talking about more than 60 amps of current. Certainly a delivery system of this much of energy requires tests for safety and practicality at self-service charging stations.
 

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"I thought the EV-1 proved that everything was solved." - DaV8or

Mitsu and Tokyo Electric Power Co. developed a quick charging system that can fill the battery with 37-mile worth of energy in 10 minutes. Mitsu claims 100-mile range per full charge (16kWh). Let’s suppose this quick charge system can fill the battery with 5kWh in ten minutes, that’s 30kW or 240V x 125A(!). Or, if Mitsu’s cruising range is based on 50% (30% - 80% SOC) of the 16kWh, still we are talking about more than 60 amps of current. Certainly a delivery system of this much of energy requires tests for safety and practicality at self-service charging stations.
It was sarcasm. Clearly Mitsubishi needs to do a lot of real world testing. My point is I guess that if GM were to announce this same news, there would be a lot of people going around saying stuff like "Why only the utility companies? Why not sell them to us now!" and "This shows GM isn't serious about EVs" and then the EV-1 would be trotted out again as to why GM wouldn't ever need to do any real world testing again because it's already done. A Japanese company takes a very cautious approach (a wise one IMO) and it's perfectly understandable to all.

Anyhow, I should have taken my meds and not posted my previous post in this thread. It wasn't really appropriate. I was just all wound up about the most sacred and holy martyr, the EV-1.
 

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I'd like to caution that I'm not putting down the MiEV program, I'm just using the information which has presented to me as of today regarding the customer preferences and MiEV program data. That being said, the MiEV program is going to be a niche market, only 2.3% of early adapters want a fully-electric vehicle, while most aren't willing to fully eliminate a secondary gasoline source. Even though customers prefer to pay for electricity over gasoline, 63% preferred a setup similar to the Chevrolet Volt which eliminated range anxiety. Additionally, the 100-125 mile range is limited to large cities, and will see reduced performance in cold and hot weather environments further reducing it's viability. I share this opinion with some of my colleagues in the automotive industry. It will sell well in large cities like San Francisco, New York, D.C, and Boston where a higher concentration of early adopters are located, but as an overall percentage of early adopters surveys have shown it to remain a niche vehicle.

Source: UC Davis, Study on Early PHEV Customers
University of Michigan, Payment preferences
 

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A city doesn't have to be large to not have a need to drive 100 miles everyday. The city I live in is mediumish and the i MiEV is perfect for 99% of my needs. If the city was smaller, it'd be even better. I can rent if I need to go out of town and also avoid piling miles on my personal vehicle.
Of course if you want to lug around a pollution machine with you everywhere you drive you'll be able to do that but eventually, it will seem a little silly.

2.3% of early adopters sounds contrivedly low.
 

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A city doesn't have to be large to not have a need to drive 100 miles everyday. The city I live in is mediumish and the iMiEV is perfect for 99% of my needs. If the city was smaller, it'd be even better. I can rent if I need to go out of town and also avoid piling miles on my personal vehicle.
Of course if you want to lug around a pollution machine with you everywhere you drive you'll be able to do that but eventually, it will seem a little silly.

2.3% of early adopters sounds contrivedly low.
I can't give you the data without permission to reprint it, but UC Davis tends to produce accurate information. When given the tradeoffs in range compared to a vehicle that had a longer range yet provided them 125mpg and 10-40 mile electric only 2.3% of the population opted for a fully electric vehicle, such as a MiEV. Secondly, you wouldn't define the 2nd-gen Prius as a pollution machine would you?
 

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Here is the problem I see. I checked my wife's mileage (without her knowing it, of course!) for a week. She has had a typical but busy week with the two kids. Normal medium sized town. Her data:

Sun 23 mi.
Mon 9 mi.
Teus 121 mi
Wed 88 mi.
Thur 21 mi.
Fri 50 mi.
Sat 90 mi.

Actually, more than I would have thought, for her.

1) Now, if driving a Volt, no problem. Range extended 3-4 days.

2)A 100 mile EV; 4 days - OK, 2 days - serious range anxiety (if she was driving careful also), 1 day - stopped somewhere. I would say 3 days she would have needed intraday charging. I don't know if she had that access or not. OR a change daily lifestyle/habits/functions.

The difference between 1) and 2) is the point. Are we going to get the country to change lifestyle habits with the flip of a switch?

We can't get the country to go metric and that's easier to do and a better idea. I just think going all EV is not practical for MOST people. Not to mention, the vehicles are going to have to be startlingly small. I don't think the U.S. waistlines can handle that either. :)
 

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Here is the problem I see. I checked my wife's mileage (without her knowing it, of course!) for a week. She has had a typical but busy week with the two kids. Normal medium sized town. Her data:

Sun 23 mi.
Mon 9 mi.
Teus 121 mi
Wed 88 mi.
Thur 21 mi.
Fri 50 mi.
Sat 90 mi.

Actually, more than I would have thought, for her.

1) Now, if driving a Volt, no problem. Range extended 3-4 days.

2)A 100 mile EV; 4 days - OK, 2 days - serious range anxiety (if she was driving careful also), 1 day - stopped somewhere. I would say 3 days she would have needed intraday charging. I don't know if she had that access or not. OR a change daily lifestyle/habits/functions.

The difference between 1) and 2) is the point. Are we going to get the country to change lifestyle habits with the flip of a switch?

We can't get the country to go metric and that's easier to do and a better idea. I just think going all EV is not practical for MOST people. Not to mention, the vehicles are going to have to be startlingly small. I don't think the U.S. waistlines can handle that either. :)
Why not just trade cars for those two days. That or give up your Volt, or buy her one?
 

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With rising fuel prices the American people will have no choice but to change their habits. That simple.
Agreed, but that doesn't mean their only option is a MiEV, it ranges from a small ICE, diesel, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid, Range-Extended Electric Vehicle, Electric Vehicle, Fuel Cell, and or Air Car.
 

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We can't get the country to go metric and that's easier to do and a better idea.
Good point. Off topic: When I was in elementary school in the early 1970's (oops. I just dated myself!) we were taught the metric system and were told that we had to learn it because in the next ten years the US was going to be all metric.:rolleyes: It has been useful knowledge though. I do conversions in my head all the time. Of coarse I also remember reading in the paper that we would be living in an ice age in the next twenty years and out of oil by 1980, so no more gas. The later really had me pissed off because that was exactly the year I was to get my drivers license. Fortunately, forecasts are often pretty bogus.
 

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2.3% of early adopters sounds low?
Well ya, they never bothered to ask me..or anyone else I know.

I would have bought one two years ago on the spot if they were out.
 

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I think 2.3% are probably the purists, but maybe risktakers. Willing to plan ahead to make sure that the next trip is 40 miles or less, taking pleasure in extending it to 50, satisfied that they have fulfilled what they want in making their own statement.

The other 97.7% want the benefits of 40 miles on a charge but the freedom to deviate from a fixed schedule and route. Some will want to make it 50 miles and others will not feel the need at all to econimize. Personally, I live where it is more than 40 miles round trip to town but I would love to try to make it round trip on a charge , downhill on the way and uphill on the way back. I just flat love the thought of owning a Volt but would take the one with an ICE over the one without. Not just because of where I live but for the occasional long trip I would want to make. Last year we were camping way out in the desert and this single lady pulled in with a Priius. I was kind of envious thinking my deisel truck and 5th wheel trailer get about 10 mpg (not to say anything about her courage to be way out there camping by herself alone).
 

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Luckily for me, I will still have my motorcycle for trips longer than 100kms. There will be many configurations for many different people, and a one size fits all will not work for this. I am glad GM is willing to give an option that can work for many people, but I will be happier when I see an option like the i-MiEV that will work for people like me. I can only hope that GM has learned from it's past.
 

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Agreed, but that doesn't mean their only option is a MiEV, it ranges from a small ICE, diesel, Hybrid, Plug-In Hybrid, Range-Extended Electric Vehicle, Electric Vehicle, Fuel Cell, and or Air Car.
... zzzz ... zzzz ... (snort) huh, what ... did someone say Air Car?

The air car will be a very successful ZEV for the California market. Just take a Chevy Volt, yank out the ICE and gasoline tank, and put in a 10 kpsi air tank from Quantum and an air motor from EngineAir - no fuss, no muss. It would be a good fleet car for vehicles "tethered" to their home base (delivery service, taxi, etc.).
 
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