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After the production Bolt was unveiled earlier this year and my subsequent in-person look at the DC Auto Show, I pretty much told myself that I would be getting a Bolt EV whenever it was released later this year. It got the wife’s seal of approval, so it seemed it was just a matter of waiting.

Then something happened which has caused me to possibly consider an alternative option. And no, it’s not the Model 3.

I’ve been loosely tracking used Model S prices on and off for a while, all the while telling myself even a used Model S is still way out of my price range. Then I saw a pristine used ’13 S 85 pop up for sale at a local dealer for less than $50k, which was a first for me.

Then I started to ask myself, “What if Model S’s continue to fall in resale value to the point a used 85 drops to $40k or below by the time the Bolt comes out?”. The Bolt optioned the way I want would likely eclipse $40k, and being an early adopter there probably won’t be much discounting.

Even if used Model S prices fall to around the same price as a Bolt optioned the way I like, there would still be a $10.5k difference in total purchase costs, as a used ‘S’ wouldn’t be eligible for tax credits ($7.5k fed credit and $3k MD credit). But having the ability to transport up to 5 adults and 2 kids from time to time would be a plus. And then there is the whole Supercharger network as well.

Suffice to say, if even <$40k Model S 60's with jumpseats start popping up by the end of the year, getting a Bolt won’t be the slam dunk decision I thought at first.
 

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After the production Bolt was unveiled earlier this year and my subsequent in-person look at the DC Auto Show, I pretty much told myself that I would be getting a Bolt EV whenever it was released later this year. It got the wife’s seal of approval, so it seemed it was just a matter of waiting.

Then something happened which has caused me to possibly consider an alternative option. And no, it’s not the Model 3.

I’ve been loosely tracking used Model S prices on and off for a while, all the while telling myself even a used Model S is still way out of my price range. Then I saw a pristine used ’13 S 85 pop up for sale at a local dealer for less than $50k, which was a first for me.

Then I started to ask myself, “What if Model S’s continue to fall in resale value to the point a used 85 drops to $40k or below by the time the Bolt comes out?”. The Bolt optioned the way I want would likely eclipse $40k, and being an early adopter there probably won’t be much discounting.

Even if used Model S prices fall to around the same price as a Bolt optioned the way I like, there would still be a $10.5k difference in total purchase costs, as a used ‘S’ wouldn’t be eligible for tax credits ($7.5k fed credit and $3k MD credit). But having the ability to transport up to 5 adults and 2 kids from time to time would be a plus. And then there is the whole Supercharger network as well.

Suffice to say, if even <$40k Model S 60's with jumpseats start popping up by the end of the year, getting a Bolt won’t be the slam dunk decision I thought at first.
Do what I did and start working up a list of pros and cons about both cars. Make sure safety ratings, range, L3 charging network, etc. are all in there. For a new Bolt, you could qualify for the $7500 tax credit, but a CPO Model S doesn't get you that. Once you put all the facts down where you can see them, it becomes clearer. At that point, you get get to the personal opinion stuff, like how the car looks.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Do what I did and start working up a list of pros and cons about both cars. Make sure safety ratings, range, L3 charging network, etc. are all in there. For a new Bolt, you could qualify for the $7500 tax credit, but a CPO Model S doesn't get you that. Once you put all the facts down where you can see them, it becomes clearer. At that point, you get get to the personal opinion stuff, like how the car looks.
Honestly, if I could find an S 60 with a couple of options and jumpseats for close to 40k, I very might jump on that deal. I don't really care about autopilot (I like..you know, actually driving), and it seems to me that non-AP Teslas will be more vulnerable to depreciation than AP versions.

I guess time is on my side in this case. :)
 

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Honestly, if I could find an S 60 with a couple of options and jumpseats for close to 40k, I very might jump on that deal. ...
An S60 would be a good deal if you wanted to pay the piper for the SW upgrade to make it an S85 with Supercharger.
That's all it takes to convert it, correct?

Only, one thing I haven't read is, Battery Degradation in Teslas. Has it been reported? The whole laptop cell pack seems strange.
And TIME marches on... Li-ion has a shelf live and a usage life.

But, I would suspect the S 60 would be the model with the least amount of degradation.
 

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I used to like driving than I moved to L.A....If you work during business hours, safe bet late Friday night or late Saturday night or early Saturday morning or Sunday morning are the only times you're not in heavy traffic...If there's a special event or accident those times aren't even safe...And thanks to superficial California, everyone is one their phones while in heavy traffic...

Additionally, AP has the auto-braking, you hope you never need it but it just takes one accident prevention to make it worth that $2500...

Overall if you potentially need to carry 7 it doesn't sound like a no brainer if it's in your price range...I would predict in the long run the Tesla will cost more in maintenance and insurance, but you're getting at least a $70K car with free supercharging...
 

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An S60 would be a good deal if you wanted to pay the piper for the SW upgrade to make it an S85 with Supercharger.
That's all it takes to convert it, correct?

Only, one thing I haven't read is, Battery Degradation in Teslas. Has it been reported? The whole laptop cell pack seems strange.
And TIME marches on... Li-ion has a shelf live and a usage life.

But, I would suspect the S 60 would be the model with the least amount of degradation.
You are thinking of the S40. The S40 is the one with an actual S60 internal with software limits. The S60 is just the S60 battery pack - not software upgradable to the S85. You can however purchase software enabled Supercharing.
 

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An S60 would be a good deal if you wanted to pay the piper for the SW upgrade to make it an S85 with Supercharger.
That's all it takes to convert it, correct?
I can't find any evidence for this.

Here's a story from a guy who wanted to upgrade from 60kWh to 85kWh, and despite initially being told by Tesla that they don't allow owners to change their battery packs, eventually his local Tesla service center agreed to physically replace his 60kWh pack with a 85kWh pack... for $18,386.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089183_life-with-tesla-model-s-battery-upgrade-from-60-kwh-to-85-kwh/page-3
 

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An S60 would be a good deal if you wanted to pay the piper for the SW upgrade to make it an S85 with Supercharger.
That's all it takes to convert it, correct?

Only, one thing I haven't read is, Battery Degradation in Teslas. Has it been reported? The whole laptop cell pack seems strange.
And TIME marches on... Li-ion has a shelf live and a usage life.

But, I would suspect the S 60 would be the model with the least amount of degradation.
1. Tesla doesn't do any more upgrades of the S60s. They won't do it at all, no matter how much you're willing to pay them (unless swapping the car is an option :p )
2. The physical packs are different. The 85 has two more banks of batteries than the 60.
3. CPO S60s all have Supercharger enabled. You literally cannot buy any car from Tesla that does not have Supercharging enabled, now.
4. Battery degradation on my friend's 2012 S60 with over 110k miles is maybe a loss of 8 miles. That's with tons of Supercharging and Texas heat.
 

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Are you close to a Tesla Service Center? That's one thing holding me back. I'm not interested in driving 5 hours round-trip for service, nor paying to have the car transported.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Are you close to a Tesla Service Center? That's one thing holding me back. I'm not interested in driving 5 hours round-trip for service, nor paying to have the car transported.
Nearest one to me is about 40 minutes away.
 

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After the production Bolt was unveiled earlier this year and my subsequent in-person look at the DC Auto Show, I pretty much told myself that I would be getting a Bolt EV whenever it was released later this year. It got the wife’s seal of approval, so it seemed it was just a matter of waiting.

Then something happened which has caused me to possibly consider an alternative option. And no, it’s not the Model 3.

I’ve been loosely tracking used Model S prices on and off for a while, all the while telling myself even a used Model S is still way out of my price range. Then I saw a pristine used ’13 S 85 pop up for sale at a local dealer for less than $50k, which was a first for me.

Then I started to ask myself, “What if Model S’s continue to fall in resale value to the point a used 85 drops to $40k or below by the time the Bolt comes out?”. The Bolt optioned the way I want would likely eclipse $40k, and being an early adopter there probably won’t be much discounting.

Even if used Model S prices fall to around the same price as a Bolt optioned the way I like, there would still be a $10.5k difference in total purchase costs, as a used ‘S’ wouldn’t be eligible for tax credits ($7.5k fed credit and $3k MD credit). But having the ability to transport up to 5 adults and 2 kids from time to time would be a plus. And then there is the whole Supercharger network as well.

Suffice to say, if even <$40k Model S 60's with jumpseats start popping up by the end of the year, getting a Bolt won’t be the slam dunk decision I thought at first.
Forget the Tesla...UNLESS you have lots of loose cash that you can pony up in case of a chargeable accident...:rolleyes:
http://gas2.org/2015/01/06/this-is-what-30000-of-damage-looks-like-on-a-tesla-model-s/
 

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I think you should buy a Volkswagen Beetle. Trying to gauge the downward slide of an EV will be too much for you. And if doesn't do your worst case scenario of depreciation, you will flip for not having purchased, and if you purchase and it does slide, you will not live with yourself. Play it safe. Buy a Model T.
 

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You'll lose that proven Chevy EV reliability, too.
LOL, yeah.
"Service High Voltage System!"
"What's that grindy bearing noise on the front left of the car?"
"Emissions recall? Really?"
"I really hate that crunching air dam sound"
"Why the hell doesn't Chevy put faster onboard chargers in their cars?"

Sure, there are some problems with Tesla, but I wouldn't go bragging about anything that sounds like "proven Chevy EV reliability". The only real EV they make is the Spark EV, and there's only a few of them on the road. Not a big pool to sample there with less than 4000 on the road.
 

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At least $10,000 cheaper with a 10 year/150,000 mile warranty? Yeah, I'd take the Bolt over a used Model S.
OP is in MD, not CA. Did they actually release the warranty specs for the Bolt EV? The 10/150k is for the atPZEV requirements of the Volt in California. The 70kW+ Model S has 8 year unlimited miles warranty on the battery and drivetrain. I'd also be curious to see the safety stats on the Bolt EV compared to the Model S. Additionally, the OP is wanting the 7-seater option. Bolt EV doesn't have that.
 

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OP is in MD, not CA. Did they actually release the warranty specs for the Bolt EV? The 10/150k is for the atPZEV requirements of the Volt in California. The 70kW+ Model S has 8 year unlimited miles warranty on the battery and drivetrain. I'd also be curious to see the safety stats on the Bolt EV compared to the Model S. Additionally, the OP is wanting the 7-seater option. Bolt EV doesn't have that.
Well, I doubt Mary Barra will hail the Bolt as the "safest car ever," but I'm sure it will be reasonably safe. Also, the OP is in MD, which means the Bolt will qualify for $10,500 of rebates that a used Tesla does not qualify for. Finally, unless I am mistaken, the five adults plus two children was a nice-to-have but not a necessity.
 

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I'd have tolerated Tesla only because I am too much interested in the half-baked autopilot.
Since you are not, get the Bolt.
The stupid face/eyes/headlights of Tesla are my primal reasons to not like that car.
But for following text I'll assume that you are impartial to looks and prefer "luxury-inside" of a Tesla.

Perhaps I am egomaniac but I've a well considered position: Live life happily.
Virgin bimbo is better than mid-aged movie-star.
Somebody's saddle has their dirty germs or actions or memories.

You can afford used Tesla - that means you'll not bother to "go to supercharger for free charging". Increased activity and boring thing, you'll not do it. Spend a few bucks and charge at home - that's what you'll do anyways. Flex your communication skills, get a charger installed at workplace instead of at home, one chore eliminated, good (almost) guaranteed parking.

Don't get old 'new technology'. Don't get cheap 'status symbol'.

In the price-tagless World, I'd get Bolt over Latest P85 Tesla. (Read- For the same price, I'd rather buy a Bolt.) Why? Driving characteristics of Volt are better than Tesla; sans acceleration. Body roll, road feel etc. are really better. A bit noisier (Volt not Bolt) but more lovable drive. Smoothness and reliability of Volt outshines Tesla. I've no reason to believe that they'd downgrade too much in case of Bolt. Thermal battery management of LG-Chem/Bolt is way way more desirable. Matter per matter itemized elemental cost of Bolt will be higher than a new P85 Tesla.

A well designed "signature sleep" $300 mattress offers better sleep than many many $5k+ mattresses. Hard mattress is better for long run. Plushness hardened into somebody else's mould is discomfortable. GM has shown through Volt that they can build better performing and more comfortable seats than German luxury brands. Believe me - Volt seats are not a psychological euphoria - they really are more comfortable than the ones in Tesla.

Potential Battery replacement may be insignificant but compounded with tax and insurance the cost over five years will be more than 20k. Why spend 20k more on an ex-model because once she was questionably hotter?

Don't live in faded glory. Embrace novelty. This affects your personal life.

Psychologically, if you are too humble or too proud, you'd end up a. emphasizing that this is an old car - I did not spend too much money or b. secretly try to hide that total miles or cost of purchase of the car. With a. people will think - oh, it's old. With b. people will think, why is s/he so evasive? Is the car not good? Either case, you'll damage your heart by saying "Why could I not afford a new model? Why am I even worried about total cost? Why did I not get a fully appointed Toyota Avalon? If I really care about the nature, why am I even thinking about 350 watt-hour per mile Tesla, when I ought to be driving 200 watt-hour per mile Bolt?"
The people on the road don't know you -> No prestige!!
Potential mates -> Eh, old car ... great but OLD car :(
Potential mates -> Oh, new car ... cheap but NEW car :) ... smart decision, maybe the next one will be new Ferrari
To want to appear as a high roller is worse than not being true to your skin - or your car - that you want and love and can stay content with.

Besides, Bolt may get autopilotish updates too. Colors and faces of Bolt look happy. Bolt has Voltech - the maximum momentum-conservation technology.

Get chosen-colored Bolt for emotional reasons, stay happy. Accept the cheapest micro-bismirched Tesla and stay nagged about it.

For occasional big needs, renting or Uber is good enough. Easy parking and ingress-egress should favor Bolt.

If this hasn't convinced your mind, I shall consider my logical reasoning unappealing. :)

Well, enjoy!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Owner of this fully loaded 60 w/ junpseats is asking $56k. If it was about 10k less, I'd seriously consider it.

http://buytesla.weebly.com/
 
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