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Hey guys,

I have firm intentions of getting a Bolt for local and medium range driving, but at this point in charging infrastructure development there is no way it can be my only car. My CPO 2011 Volt is the most fuel efficient car I have ever owned, even when running on gasoline with no opportunities to charge (long trips with no plug in available). I have observed real world economy of 38 mpg if I don't include any EV miles on my recent 1500 mile round trip, or about 40 mpg with the starting charge, and one chance to charge before getting back home. This is on "normal" all season tires, not LRR tires. Speeds mostly at 70 mph.

In reality my CPO 2011 Volt will be paid off this year, and it would make no economic sense to get a Prius... it just seems like a shame to run a Volt almost exclusively on gasoline on long highway trips even though it is what makes sense economically in my situation. I would love to have a 2nd generation Volt, but it would feel "icky" to purchase one and use it as my only car when I know I will have crap loads of long highway trips. In my new work situation I will average over 600 miles a month on the highway burning gasoline in addition to my local driving. That is if I take the job offer "close" to my wife's job :) The job further away I would be driving around 1,100 round trip a month on gasoline in addition to my local driving, or flying my wife in to my location since she refuses to drive that much.

The Bolt is a "want" not a "need" so I am not counting it as a financial loss or gain any more than I feel bad about eating at a restaurant when eating at home would cut costs.

Later,

Keith
 

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There is no right answer Keith imo. It all depends on how much satisfaction you get out of having the exactly best car for each trip...........and how much you are willing to pay for that satisfaction.
 

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Well, as you said, the Prius serves no purpose because you also have a paid-off Volt. I won't be getting rid of my Volt when I get my Bolt, though I could in theory because I will be using my Bolt for my regular 1,100 mile round trips. Even if you are using your Volt only for extended driving, you are still better off than you would be with a Prius.

Heck, a Malibu Hybrid would be a better option for you than a Prius. It has better mileage than the Prius with more room.
 

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If I were driving that much it certainly wouldn't be in a Prius. Keep the Volt until it croaks. Volt is a great road car.
 

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This is my biggest complaint about the Bolt EV, not having a real L3 charging infrastructure. How often are people going to go above 100 miles a day, just doing around town/work trips? There's going to be a single-digit percentage of people that would need this. So what does that extra hundred miles mean on the Bolt? Let's take it on a long distance drive! Oh wait, there's spotty-at-best CCS charging infrastructure, and GM doesn't give a rat's ass about helping to build it out. Sure, people will chime in and say, "CCS infrastructure is coming!" and "Too bad Tesla won't let anyone charge with their Superchargers!" but those old arguments have been proven to not hold any water. Only time will tell if CCS takes off.

So again, what's that extra hundred miles of range for, on the Bolt?

Sure the Bolt is a hatch, and for me that's where its only benefit over the Model 3 stops. I currently own a Volt and a Model S, which are the finest examples of plugins that GM and Tesla make (IMHO). After driving these two vehicles for over two years, I can sleep well knowing my Model 3 deposit is going to get me the best sedan to replace my Volt.

And yes, you're right that getting a Prius to make up for the Bolt's shortcomings is silly. Give GM a call and ask them if they're going to work with Tesla to get the Bolt EV the ability to use Superchargers. Seriously, do it and see what they say. The more requests they get like that, the greater the chance of them opening their mind up to the possibility. I can promise you, it would put the Bolt EV as a serious competitor to the Model 3, but GM's got enough margin from trucks, so... ;)
 

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So again, what's that extra hundred miles of range for, on the Bolt?
It would enable me to use the Bolt EV without range anxiety within Chicago metro area. It could make the daily 60 mile round trip commute plus have reserve for any side trips, even in winter with heat blasting while driving highway speeds. And it has the very usable utility of being a hatchback CUV form factor with the interior space of a mid-sized car (according to reports).

For longer road trips I make, I have a paid-off Volt, like the OP. The Volt and Bolt are a great combo for two car households with access to charging.
 

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CCS infrastructure is coming...and it's already there in some areas. There are 665 CCS locations in the US today and growing at 150% per year.

Building, operating and maintaining Superchargers is going to be too costly for Tesla in the long term unless they manage to sign up partners.
 

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Even if there was suitable charging options, if you're taking 1500 road trips, you have to be okay with stopping every 3-4 hour to charge for 45mins-1hour potentially waiting for a charger to become vacant...It comes down to one sole factor, patience for being green; even if you're okay with it you need to ensure your passenger share your vision...The next issue is price for charging stations, many have reported not only are these not free, they actually quite expensive eg more so than gas...Because everyone loves nickle and diming click bait, many are reporting that charging stations are becoming more and more creative with pricing...$4.95 off the top plug in fees, and fees for staying plugged in beyond 100% or even a 2 hour limit, if you're there beyond 2 hours they ding you with a fee...Point being, if a station is free today it may be more expensive than gas tomorrow...So like anyone, you have to balance finance vs being green...
 

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I wouldn't want a Prius for long trips. The Volt is much more comfortable. Riding 3 miles to lunch in a Prius is enough for me lol. Paid off Volt is a perfect road trip car
 

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I wouldn't want a Prius for long trips. The Volt is much more comfortable. Riding 3 miles to lunch in a Prius is enough for me lol. Paid off Volt is a perfect road trip car
I took a 5000 mile road trip in our Gen 1 Pri many years ago. It seemed comfortable enough to me. Replaced it with the Volt and waiting to take a long trip. We had a meeting with an EV manufacturer recently and discussed the range issue. Most of us agreed the EV should have 150+ miles. This will allow us to drive from the Silicon Valley to SF and back (about 100 miles or so) and still drive the hills of SF. With my LEAF, I needed a quick charge for the round trip, and reliable, open QCs are an issue. Also there are usually only one QC per site so that is also a problem. I have used sites where there is a Chademo and CCS on the same post. Unfortunately, they cannot both be used simultaneously. There are other issues I have observed but ...
 

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An other strategy: If you are only using the second vehicle for long-range ICE driving, why not get an ICEV that you really enjoy driving? Forget about mileage. Guess what vehicle complements the Bolt in your circumstances? The C7. And from what I've read, you'd still be getting ~30 mpg for highway driving. Having the Bolt for local use and an ICE for long-range driving means half of your miles are still going to be EV. And as the CCS charging infrastructure is rolled out, you'll be able to increase the percentage of EV miles driven.

This is my biggest complaint about the Bolt EV, not having a real L3 charging infrastructure. How often are people going to go above 100 miles a day, just doing around town/work trips?
I drive 120 to 150 miles an average of four days a week, though I have at least three or four public CCS stations along the route (including one about three blocks from where I live).

So what does that extra hundred miles mean on the Bolt?
Volt owners have been asking the same question about the extra 200 miles of electric range on the Model S for a while now. Especially early on, when the Supercharger network was spotty, but even now, when there are huge gaps in certain parts of the country. But I guess the Model S/X are also niche, unsellable cars?
 

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It does sound like you could use a high mpg hybrid. But there are a number to choose from and more are coming. It's not just down to a Prius. But I do agree with those who say keep the Volt. With a charge or two on a long trip, the mpg is good enough that even a Prius will really only save you a tiny amount of fuel.
 

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Even if there was suitable charging options, if you're taking 1500 road trips, you have to be okay with stopping every 3-4 hour to charge for 45mins-1hour potentially waiting for a charger to become vacant...It comes down to one sole factor, patience for being green; even if you're okay with it you need to ensure your passenger share your vision...The next issue is price for charging stations, many have reported not only are these not free, they actually quite expensive eg more so than gas...Because everyone loves nickle and diming click bait, many are reporting that charging stations are becoming more and more creative with pricing...$4.95 off the top plug in fees, and fees for staying plugged in beyond 100% or even a 2 hour limit, if you're there beyond 2 hours they ding you with a fee...Point being, if a station is free today it may be more expensive than gas tomorrow...So like anyone, you have to balance finance vs being green...
LOL, I just did that last week in my Tesla: Dallas to Orlando and back with my wife and two kids. Tens of thousands of Model S owners are also fine with using the Supercharger network like that. In the 42k miles through 15 states I have on my Model S' odometer, I have NEVER had to sit and wait for a Supercharger to free up. I've never even had to share a Supercharger pair (which makes the charge rate a little slower), either. Until you've done it, you're only just imagining it being a pain in the ass.

As for CCS, it's got a ways to go before getting to be like Superchargers:
1. CCS capable cars go from 80-200 (Bolt) miles, so how do you space them out?
2. Charging rates are up to 50kW, which is less than half the speed of Superchargers (so yeah, you're going to wait a while)
3. Very few of them are free.
4. CCS locations vary from 1-6+ chargers. If you arrive to a single charger location and someone's using it, you're screwed for a while.

So, instead of people insisting that Tesla "get with the program and use CCS" how about those people tell GM to "get with the program and work with Tesla to use Superchargers."
 

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Even if I could seldom plug it in, I'd rather have a Gen-1 Volt over a Prius. And I'm trying to be fair as somebody who has owned several Priuses in the past. They were great cars. But there time has passed.
 

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1. CCS capable cars go from 80-200 (Bolt) miles, so how do you space them out?
Considering the Bolt has a longer single-charge range than the Model S70, how did Tesla space out the Superchargers to account for the S70?

2. Charging rates are up to 50kW, which is less than half the speed of Superchargers (so yeah, you're going to wait a while)
Actually the rates are up to 100 kW, but that roll out is happening now.

3. Very few of them are free.
None of the Superchargers are free. You are paying a hefty premium for the privilege of using them.

4. CCS locations vary from 1-6+ chargers. If you arrive to a single charger location and someone's using it, you're screwed for a while.
True, but that is why it is so imperative that they be pay-for-use. I don't want local Leafs and i3s charging there just because it is free. Likewise, I don't want Tesla owners who have already paid for Supercharger access to charge there because it is a more convenient stopping point than the Supercharger that might be up or down the road a bit.
 

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True, but that is why it is so imperative that they be pay-for-use. I don't want local Leafs and i3s charging there just because it is free.
This is an issue in our area - too many EVs with the free charge cards. The number of these EVs has increased dramatically, but the number of charging stations has not. The car companies have to get with the program and change the dynamics for charging.
 

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This is an issue in our area - too many EVs with the free charge cards. The number of these EVs has increased dramatically, but the number of charging stations has not. The car companies have to get with the program and change the dynamics for charging.
I agree with the first part, but I don't want to honor the idea that car manufacturers should be on the hook for car charging. While it's true that Tesla wouldn't have sold as many cars without the Supercharger selling point, how many more cars could they have sold with $5,000 to $10,000 off the MSRP? Plus, as others have mentioned, it's a losing proposition, because the more time goes by, the more Supercharging costs the company. It's almost as though Tesla was designed to be bought out/sold, but there just haven't been any takers yet.

A majority of Americans can charge at home to meet their regular driving needs, and so many ICEV options between privately owned cars and available rentals make the ability to charge during long-range trips more of a convenience than a necessity. Fast forward five years, and even without GM's involvement, I doubt you will be able to drive more than 100 miles on any heavily trafficked freeway before encountering a 100 kW CCS charger.
 
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