GM Volt Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When the Volt was first being announced, the various power plant models showed a full blown electric variant. I never see or hear about this model anymore. I hope they offer this model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
190 Posts
I think if they offered it you would be disappointed by the price. The Li-ion battery technology is just too expensive at this point. An EREV makes much more sense. I hope that as the battery technology advances, GM will keep the battery capacity about the same, and keeps lowering the prices. That way the Volt becomes more popular, and we need that.

The Mitsubishi iMIEV is supposed to be all electric. That can serve for the niche market, but I think most americans, at least, want more range than it offers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
after-market mods for the pure EV

The iMIEV appears to have a pretty decent charge time (35 minutes to 80% w/200 Volts). I don't know what the capacity is to be but, I was thinking, "hey wouldn't it be nice to add a generator in the trunk". In the very least you could just pull it out and recharge your in the event you don't have access to a plug. With some skill and dedication, you can connect the generator for automatic charging.

The iMIEV appears to AWD too...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
The iMIEV appears to have a pretty decent charge time (35 minutes to 80% w/200 Volts). I don't know what the capacity is to be but, I was thinking, "hey wouldn't it be nice to add a generator in the trunk". In the very least you could just pull it out and recharge your in the event you don't have access to a plug. With some skill and dedication, you can connect the generator for automatic charging.

The iMIEV appears to AWD too...
I actually can't believe you just said that :)

What's the difference between having a generator in the trunk or a generator incorporated into the design of the car?

If you think you are going to need a generator then buy a Volt. If you want to pretend you don't; then but an EV and stick a generator in the back that you could remove when your friends are around ... lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
whoops...got lost in my own tangent

Where I was going (and probably shouldn't have) was the fact that pure EVs don't have sufficient range. And I don't mean that just in the charge to charge range, but also the fact that there is no infrastructure built up to support EVs. This coupled with long charge times, makes any extended journey a hassle. So even if I have a 450 mile range with an EV (which is about what I have on my Hyundai, filled up), you are still stuck making sure you have a place to stay, with someone who doesn't mind you pulling 10kW for 10 hours. However, if you had a 10 kW generator, at least you could pull into a camp site or a rest area. When you were not on a long journey, you could just put the generator back in the garage.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
782 Posts
When the Volt was first being announced, the various power plant models showed a full blown electric variant. I never see or hear about this model anymore. I hope they offer this model.
At the meeting the team was asked about an EV and they felt that they could make a much greater impact with the Volt's configuration. It wasn't ruled out AFTER they (Volt's) get a foothold in the market and battery power/cost both drop significantly. IMHO, I totally agree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,797 Posts
Well. My question is.. how much does it cost to produce the range-extender and all of its required components? Even if the vehicle only got 40 miles EV range just like the range-extended version, you'd be amazed how many people could still drive the car everyday. You could always give them the option of comming back and buying the range extender if they designed it as sort of a bolt-in feature.

I agree that right now with our present technology, the way things ought to be is that anyone who drives less than 40 miles per day should be driving some form of electric vehicle. Anyone who drives further than that should be driving some sort of hybrid, preferably a plug-in hybrid design like the Volt.

As I've mentioned before, I drive an EV everyday and mine only has 20 miles range. People always want to talk about all the places I can't go because of my limited range. I prefer to look at it from the point of view, "Look at all the places I CAN go." For everything else, there is my wife's gasoline car. But with a 40 mile range, I can't think of any place that I go on a regular basis during the course of a year that I couldn't reach with that. The only thing that comes to mind is a family member who lives about 30 miles away. In which case, I would just recharge at their place before returning home. I actually do that now with my existing EV. There is a family member who lives about 15 miles away. The only way for me to get there and back is to recharge while I'm there. My car can completely recharge in about 3 hours from a standard wall-socket, so it isn't a problem.

Also.. when it comes to infrastructure. I think people are sorely mistaken on that. Everywhere you see a house or a business that has electrical outlets, then you have infrastructure. Just think, it wouldn't be terribly expensive for business owners, parking lot owners, and home owners to install electrical outlets where you have to put some quarters or something in to park and use. Many places could bring in some extra profit that way. If people started buying more plug-in hybrids, this type of thing could take off very quickly. Because it would be cheap to install, it would take almost no time to build an infrastructure. Compare that with trying to get hydrogen filling stations!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Going the other way...

When the Volt was first being announced, the various power plant models showed a full blown electric variant. I never see or hear about this model anymore. I hope they offer this model.
(just joined trying to read all the posts...)

What if I said I want the Volt, but WITHOUT the batteries? :eek::rolleyes:

I save on weight and never have to worry about plugging it in somewhere.

Why would I want this? My daily work commute is 60 miles a day. I drive more than 30,000 miles a year...I don't have time to plug it in.

I am gathering that without the use of the batteries, the Volt will get more than 40MPG, which is more than twice what I get now.

I thought the concept car was cool looking, but I see that the production car maybe a little less.
If the lighter vehicle would do 0-60 in 7 seconds and looked like the concept, I'd be a buyer.....

Just thought I'd throw a different point of view out there ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
(just joined trying to read all the posts...)

What if I said I want the Volt, but WITHOUT the batteries? :eek::rolleyes:
You are not the first and you won't be the last who have thought of this before. Many people will just says "Go buy a Prius." If that your way of thinking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
You are not the first and you won't be the last who have thought of this before. Many people will just says "Go buy a Prius." If that your way of thinking.
I don't like the way the prius looks :rolleyes:
I didn't want a hybrid.....then I got to read how the Volt is actually powered here and it is a little different than I anticipated.
I was hoping with the electric motors at the wheels, 0-60 would be more than is currently anticipated.

I just found another thread with an "answer"...and of course, I didn't like the answer :eek::D

I guess the Volt is probably not the car for me....but I will keep tabs on it. Maybe I will change my mind......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
What if I said I want the Volt, but WITHOUT the batteries? :eek::rolleyes:

.....

I am gathering that without the use of the batteries, the Volt will get more than 40MPG, which is more than twice what I get now.
The 50 MPG charging from the battery to the motor would not be the same in a non-battery based system. When you are speeding up and down, your transmission shifts the motor to varying needs, even if those needs are not very effecient at turning the gas to electricity. A Volt without the batteries would need a transmission and thus, less effecient and closer to the gass effeciencies of any regular (non-hybrid since you don't want the battery) cars. Without the transmision, you would have a car with going only 1 RPM. That's not too practical without a buffer (aka battery).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,916 Posts
WOW_FCTR,

I'm curious as to your point of view. As you must have seen elsewhere, the batteries are needed for full performance. You don't ever "have" to plug it in to get the spec'd 50MPG, but I don't understand why you wouldn't WANT to plug it in if outlets are readily available to you. Just because you can use the plug, doesn't mean you have to every time you stop. But, the cost to run the Volt from grid electricity is about 1/3 the cost of running it from gas. Is there a reason why you would prefer to go to the gas station as apposed to plugging in?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
The 50 MPG charging from the battery to the motor would not be the same in a non-battery based system. When you are speeding up and down, your transmission shifts the motor to varying needs, even if those needs are not very effecient at turning the gas to electricity. A Volt without the batteries would need a transmission and thus, less effecient and closer to the gass effeciencies of any regular (non-hybrid since you don't want the battery) cars. Without the transmision, you would have a car with going only 1 RPM. That's not too practical without a buffer (aka battery).
Thanks for the explanation....I'm not sure that I understand it completely. If the motor sped up and slowed down, then the amount of electricity created would increase/decrease....you would go faster/slower. Maybe I am over simplifying it in my head...


WOW_FCTR,

I'm curious as to your point of view. As you must have seen elsewhere, the batteries are needed for full performance. You don't ever "have" to plug it in to get the spec'd 50MPG, but I don't understand why you wouldn't WANT to plug it in if outlets are readily available to you. Just because you can use the plug, doesn't mean you have to every time you stop. But, the cost to run the Volt from grid electricity is about 1/3 the cost of running it from gas. Is there a reason why you would prefer to go to the gas station as apposed to plugging in?
Good question...
I would suppose that if I had a garage in which to keep the vehicle and that there was a "docking station" (that's probably been discussed somewhere before), where I could just drive the car into the garage and some kind of connectors on the floor of the garage touched connectors on the bottom of the car and automatically started charging, then I would charge it.

But seeing I don't have an empty garage, I believe that I would have an extension cord running under my garage door to the middle of my driveway. I would have to plug/unplug the vehicle in sun/rain/snow/ice/cold everyday. If I just ran gas, I would only have to go to the gas pump once a week (and here in Jersey someone else pumps it for me). I would have to go to the gas station anyway if I ran on batteries for 40 miles because my round trip to work is 60 miles, plus I average 54 miles a day (365 days) driving somewhere else.
Now, as for the price difference...at $4 a gallon today, I spend over $500 a month on gas in my current vehicle, which gets 19 mpg. So if I got 50mpg, I would already be saving a ton of money and the "extra" savings by running on electric isn't enough for me to hassle with the cord.

So I am probably coming at this vehicle from a completely different way than most. I like to drive performance cars. I've had 3 Camaros and I was looking at maybe getting the new Camaro. I saw the concept of the Volt and it was similar enough in styling to catch my eye. The styling to me said "performance", not like a Prius, etc.
Well the original range of 600+ miles also caught my attention...it would be nice not to go to the gas station every week :rolleyes:
I know that electric vehicles "can" have performance.
I actually did not have too much information about this vehicle before coming here and I see that some of the members here "really" do their homework.
So, no I did not know, until I guess yesterday, that full performance could not be obtained without the batteries.....but that is why I am here, to learn.
So this vehicle may not be what I'm looking for, but I'm sure that I will keep tabs on it just to make sure of that fact :D
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
3,689 Posts
Thanks for the explanation....I'm not sure that I understand it completely. If the motor sped up and slowed down, then the amount of electricity created would increase/decrease....you would go faster/slower. Maybe I am over simplifying it in my head...




Good question...
I would suppose that if I had a garage in which to keep the vehicle and that there was a "docking station" (that's probably been discussed somewhere before), where I could just drive the car into the garage and some kind of connectors on the floor of the garage touched connectors on the bottom of the car and automatically started charging, then I would charge it.

But seeing I don't have an empty garage, I believe that I would have an extension cord running under my garage door to the middle of my driveway. I would have to plug/unplug the vehicle in sun/rain/snow/ice/cold everyday. If I just ran gas, I would only have to go to the gas pump once a week (and here in Jersey someone else pumps it for me). I would have to go to the gas station anyway if I ran on batteries for 40 miles because my round trip to work is 60 miles, plus I average 54 miles a day (365 days) driving somewhere else.
Now, as for the price difference...at $4 a gallon today, I spend over $500 a month on gas in my current vehicle, which gets 19 mpg. So if I got 50mpg, I would already be saving a ton of money and the "extra" savings by running on electric isn't enough for me to hassle with the cord.

So I am probably coming at this vehicle from a completely different way than most. I like to drive performance cars. I've had 3 Camaros and I was looking at maybe getting the new Camaro. I saw the concept of the Volt and it was similar enough in styling to catch my eye. The styling to me said "performance", not like a Prius, etc.
Well the original range of 600+ miles also caught my attention...it would be nice not to go to the gas station every week :rolleyes:
I know that electric vehicles "can" have performance.
I actually did not have too much information about this vehicle before coming here and I see that some of the members here "really" do their homework.
So, no I did not know, until I guess yesterday, that full performance could not be obtained without the batteries.....but that is why I am here, to learn.
So this vehicle may not be what I'm looking for, but I'm sure that I will keep tabs on it just to make sure of that fact :D

My feeling is that once people get use to plugging in it will become second nature. Also, if you look at the Project Better Place charger (not the swap-out station) it’s an inductive charger that charges from the underside of the car. No need to plug in. This will be good for the lazy people or people that refuse to change even when the environment around them changes.

Thus, GM might just put a Prius size battery in the car and call it Volt Light. A non-plug-in hybrid. It’s true it should get close to the gas mileage of the prius with out the cost of the battery or the fuss of plugging in. I personally want to plug in. Help America get off of imported gas, reduce our pollution, change geopolitics, etc. Some people just want a car that looks cool. Don't worry, GM will accommodate. Just look how they accommodated the Hummer crowd. <sigh> I guess things need to get a whole lot worse before people are ready for real change. A change toward a more sustainable way of living.

I am now convinced that firstly a majority of the US population will need to demand real change for it to happen and secondly the government will need to set policy to get the remaining minority of people on board. They will do this by properly pricing (by taxation) non-renewables. People argue that you can't do that or that the market will take care of it. No it won't. The market is not sophisticated enough to take into account long-term variables like health risks, homeland security, destruction of the environment. I hope that us humans can someday agree that moving towards sustainability will be good for everyone. A more stable economic environment for everyone. Running out of things is never a good situation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
The 50 MPG charging from the battery to the motor would not be the same in a non-battery based system. When you are speeding up and down, your transmission shifts the motor to varying needs, even if those needs are not very effecient at turning the gas to electricity. A Volt without the batteries would need a transmission and thus, less effecient and closer to the gass effeciencies of any regular (non-hybrid since you don't want the battery) cars. Without the transmision, you would have a car with going only 1 RPM. That's not too practical without a buffer (aka battery).
Transmission? There is no transmission. Are you thinking Prius? With no battery, it would be like a train. There is no transmission in a train. You would still gain effeciency, but just not as much with the battery saving power from regen braking. The one thing you might want to do is remove the 120kW traction motor and replace it with a 60kW traction motor. Since the generator can only supply 53kW, that is all you would ever use anyway. Acceleration and hill climbing would suffer, but otherwise it would still be an acceptable car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
45 Posts
If plugging in is too much of a "hassle," then you don't want this car. You'd be spending $12,000 or so for batteries that you will never use.



Just buy a standard hybrid from someone else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
The no battery Volt idea is a red herring. It just doesn't work from an engineering perspective. The motors need a very high amperage at start up, something a battery is good at and an ICE/Generator is not.

So to get back on topic, I for one would prefer the no ICE Volt if it were say $5K cheaper. I could make my daily commute just fine and never need the ICE. It seems quite logical for GM to design the ICE as a module to allow this option. As I understand it, the ICE only supplies electricity and has no mechcnial linkages for AC etc. If that is the case why not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
286 Posts
I'm sure GM will use their experience with the Volt on other future models. I can see the possibility of electric only cars from GM. But yea...you'll need a quick charge because any car that takes hours to recharge for any meaningful range won't do well in the mass market.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top